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Letter from Concerned Members of ACMOC
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2 years 1 month ago #241466
by ctsnowfighter
Replied by ctsnowfighter on topic Letter from Concerned Members of ACMOC
A - Antique
C - Caterpillar
M - Machinery
O - Owners
C - Club
Antiques are those that are no longer wanted or serving a daily working life --- YEP - Many of US.
Caterpillar speaks to the HOLT-BEST and post merger equipment
Machinery - "Caterpillar" made many more machines than tracklaying tractors
Owners -- Those persons that owned or do own the above branded equipment
Club --- This is where the rub comes - everyone has an opinion and they do not often mesh --
C - Caterpillar
M - Machinery
O - Owners
C - Club
Antiques are those that are no longer wanted or serving a daily working life --- YEP - Many of US.
Caterpillar speaks to the HOLT-BEST and post merger equipment
Machinery - "Caterpillar" made many more machines than tracklaying tractors
Owners -- Those persons that owned or do own the above branded equipment
Club --- This is where the rub comes - everyone has an opinion and they do not often mesh --
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2 years 1 month ago #241467
by ctsnowfighter
Replied by ctsnowfighter on topic Letter from Concerned Members of ACMOC
Keystroke - OUCH -- sent message before I was complete
My Point -- until and only if and when - the entire membership of the club has the opportunity to partake in the decisions and direction - there will be but one outcome -
FAILURE - Terminal with no chance for reconciliation
History -- go look at the failures - most have a common denominator - lack of support by those that are directly in the path of the decisions made by those in "power".
Many clubs, fraternities, agencies, etc have suffered the same fates - ACMOC is on the path now - maybe already too late! Many never resurfaced and that includes those that have survived for centuries!
Once alienated - there will be no return -
When you throw a track - the machine stops --- you gather the tools and help, put it back on, fix the problem and go back to work. JUST MAYBE - there is still time to gather the members, have a consensus of the direction and then schedule a time and place where ALL can attend or do so virtually.
The problems have not just appeared, they have been known for some time, so why the RUSH with a MEETING without consensus of the membership????
Who and under what authority is this whole affair (letter and proposed actions) benefiting? What is the goal and proposed outcome?
All I see is hurt, and discontent - do we not have enough of that already?
I have enjoyed and also suffered some very long hours and conditions on CATERPILLARS and other machinery. I have tried to share my limited knowledge and experiences, shared photos that I have taken - all with one goal - to enhance the pleasure and knowledge of those that use this site. I have also watched others just silently fade away, many of which put lots of money and time into the club and hobby. They are GONE -
One place I have enjoyed - yet I find it also becoming torn asunder - Can't anyone understand why it was a CLUB - of the members, by the members and for the enjoyment of the multitudes of those bitten by the Caterpillar BUG - members and visitors alike. You want members - sow seed of value and open doors with kindness and care!
Without members and a common bond - it is not dying - it is DEAD!
My Point -- until and only if and when - the entire membership of the club has the opportunity to partake in the decisions and direction - there will be but one outcome -
FAILURE - Terminal with no chance for reconciliation
History -- go look at the failures - most have a common denominator - lack of support by those that are directly in the path of the decisions made by those in "power".
Many clubs, fraternities, agencies, etc have suffered the same fates - ACMOC is on the path now - maybe already too late! Many never resurfaced and that includes those that have survived for centuries!
Once alienated - there will be no return -
When you throw a track - the machine stops --- you gather the tools and help, put it back on, fix the problem and go back to work. JUST MAYBE - there is still time to gather the members, have a consensus of the direction and then schedule a time and place where ALL can attend or do so virtually.
The problems have not just appeared, they have been known for some time, so why the RUSH with a MEETING without consensus of the membership????
Who and under what authority is this whole affair (letter and proposed actions) benefiting? What is the goal and proposed outcome?
All I see is hurt, and discontent - do we not have enough of that already?
I have enjoyed and also suffered some very long hours and conditions on CATERPILLARS and other machinery. I have tried to share my limited knowledge and experiences, shared photos that I have taken - all with one goal - to enhance the pleasure and knowledge of those that use this site. I have also watched others just silently fade away, many of which put lots of money and time into the club and hobby. They are GONE -
One place I have enjoyed - yet I find it also becoming torn asunder - Can't anyone understand why it was a CLUB - of the members, by the members and for the enjoyment of the multitudes of those bitten by the Caterpillar BUG - members and visitors alike. You want members - sow seed of value and open doors with kindness and care!
Without members and a common bond - it is not dying - it is DEAD!
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2 years 1 month ago #241468
by Kurt Bangert
It is my personal view that transparency is in everyone's benefit and I advocate for it. In a club like this, there's no good reason for discontent or hurt, let's all make the decisions that need to be made and get on with having fun. I think you'll see things from the current board that are right in the spirit of my personal comments.
Very, very well said, thank you for caring enough to comment, I think we can all take something from your wisdom.
Kurt Bangert
D4 D 78A 6678
D4 6U 1139
RD4 4G223W
D2 5U 1164
JD 350B
JD 420C
Replied by Kurt Bangert on topic Letter from Concerned Members of ACMOC
CT - I agree with many of your comments #1 being that the membership needs to be involved in the decisions of the Club. I have not been on the board long, nor do I know many of you, I just like these old machines, in other words, I have no axe to grind.Keystroke - OUCH -- sent message before I was complete
My Point -- until and only if and when - the entire membership of the club has the opportunity to partake in the decisions and direction - there will be but one outcome -
FAILURE - Terminal with no chance for reconciliation
History -- go look at the failures - most have a common denominator - lack of support by those that are directly in the path of the decisions made by those in "power".
Many clubs, fraternities, agencies, etc have suffered the same fates - ACMOC is on the path now - maybe already too late! Many never resurfaced and that includes those that have survived for centuries!
Once alienated - there will be no return -
When you throw a track - the machine stops --- you gather the tools and help, put it back on, fix the problem and go back to work. JUST MAYBE - there is still time to gather the members, have a consensus of the direction and then schedule a time and place where ALL can attend or do so virtually.
The problems have not just appeared, they have been known for some time, so why the RUSH with a MEETING without consensus of the membership????
Who and under what authority is this whole affair (letter and proposed actions) benefiting? What is the goal and proposed outcome?
All I see is hurt, and discontent - do we not have enough of that already?
I have enjoyed and also suffered some very long hours and conditions on CATERPILLARS and other machinery. I have tried to share my limited knowledge and experiences, shared photos that I have taken - all with one goal - to enhance the pleasure and knowledge of those that use this site. I have also watched others just silently fade away, many of which put lots of money and time into the club and hobby. They are GONE -
One place I have enjoyed - yet I find it also becoming torn asunder - Can't anyone understand why it was a CLUB - of the members, by the members and for the enjoyment of the multitudes of those bitten by the Caterpillar BUG - members and visitors alike. You want members - sow seed of value and open doors with kindness and care!
Without members and a common bond - it is not dying - it is DEAD!
It is my personal view that transparency is in everyone's benefit and I advocate for it. In a club like this, there's no good reason for discontent or hurt, let's all make the decisions that need to be made and get on with having fun. I think you'll see things from the current board that are right in the spirit of my personal comments.
Very, very well said, thank you for caring enough to comment, I think we can all take something from your wisdom.
Kurt Bangert
D4 D 78A 6678
D4 6U 1139
RD4 4G223W
D2 5U 1164
JD 350B
JD 420C
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2 years 1 month ago #241469
by sheddcanyon
Replied by sheddcanyon on topic Letter from Concerned Members of ACMOC
I'm a lawyer and I've spent a fair amount of time advising, forming, and dissolving nonprofit entities. I sit on a few local nonprofit boards, as well. In 26 years of doing this, I have never seen anything as aggressive in attempting to change leadership direction in the organization. This will not end well. I suggest the following steps be taken and be taken with full transparency to the membership.
1. The signers withdraw the Call For Meeting.
2. The Board of Directors amend the Bylaws to allow for electronic voting for members, meeting attendance by tele/video conference, and increase the Member Meeting quorum requirement to 5% of membership.
3. The signers present to the Board their concerns and suggestions to the Board. The Board consider the signers' concerns and suggestions. The Board then communicate their conclusions to the signers and membership.
4. If the signers are unsatisfied with the board's conclusion, they then go forward with their Call For Meeting. If they don't get the necessary quorum, the issue is moot. If they get the necessary quorum, the participating Members either confirm the present slate of Directors or they elect a new one.
I'm fairly amazed the signers think this is a good idea. By their reckoning, a minimum of 11 members in Illinois can completely upend the sitting Board and install their selected slate (I'm pretty confident nobody has the time or desire to travel to Illinois for a membership meeting, lovely as Illinois may be in mid-November). I'm in Shandon, California and I know we have 11 members within a 30 mile radius. We're all crazier than bedbugs. Maybe we should take a run at this corporate takeover. You know, for the prestige and the high compensation.
All kidding aside, we have a duly elected Board of volunteers who receive nothing for their efforts other than the desire to keep ACMOC going forward. Unless they have broken the law or have done something that will cause ACMOC to crash and burn, let them go forward.
1. The signers withdraw the Call For Meeting.
2. The Board of Directors amend the Bylaws to allow for electronic voting for members, meeting attendance by tele/video conference, and increase the Member Meeting quorum requirement to 5% of membership.
3. The signers present to the Board their concerns and suggestions to the Board. The Board consider the signers' concerns and suggestions. The Board then communicate their conclusions to the signers and membership.
4. If the signers are unsatisfied with the board's conclusion, they then go forward with their Call For Meeting. If they don't get the necessary quorum, the issue is moot. If they get the necessary quorum, the participating Members either confirm the present slate of Directors or they elect a new one.
I'm fairly amazed the signers think this is a good idea. By their reckoning, a minimum of 11 members in Illinois can completely upend the sitting Board and install their selected slate (I'm pretty confident nobody has the time or desire to travel to Illinois for a membership meeting, lovely as Illinois may be in mid-November). I'm in Shandon, California and I know we have 11 members within a 30 mile radius. We're all crazier than bedbugs. Maybe we should take a run at this corporate takeover. You know, for the prestige and the high compensation.
All kidding aside, we have a duly elected Board of volunteers who receive nothing for their efforts other than the desire to keep ACMOC going forward. Unless they have broken the law or have done something that will cause ACMOC to crash and burn, let them go forward.
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- Kurt Bangert
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2 years 1 month ago #241470
by Kurt Bangert
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Replied by Kurt Bangert on topic Letter from Concerned Members of ACMOC
@sheddcanyon - Thank you for your comment, advice, and humor. I had to laugh at the "highly compensated" comment. Your comments on the correct process are spot-on and as a board member, I would expect and welcome any member's concerns brought properly and constructively.
Thank you for caring enough to comment
Kurt Bangert
Thank you for caring enough to comment
Kurt Bangert
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2 years 1 month ago #241471
by Old Magnet
Replied by Old Magnet on topic Letter from Concerned Members of ACMOC
On the other hand the current proposal to move from subsidiary to contract Chapters is a death sentence.
Our local Chapter 17 has pretty much decided to disban if that's they way it's going to go.
Who is going to want to administer a non-profit operation at each Chapter? Not me!!!
Our local Chapter 17 has pretty much decided to disban if that's they way it's going to go.
Who is going to want to administer a non-profit operation at each Chapter? Not me!!!
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2 years 1 month ago #241473
by Kurt Bangert
THANK YOU for your comments, this is the kind of thing that a board of a club like this one needs. There are a lot of good people here that can pull together to find solutions, not always solutions that please every member, but ones that will meet the needs of the Club and its members.
Kurt Bangert
D4 D 78A 6678
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Replied by Kurt Bangert on topic Letter from Concerned Members of ACMOC
@Old Magnet, We will definitely have more meetings on this topic and lay out all the issues that the Club and chapters face. I know that no one on the Board wants to see fewer chapters and we certainly don't want to lose membership, but that said, there are some hard facts that do need to be faced and we cannot in good conscience allow these things to go unaddressed any longer. The problems existed as far back as 2011, and the board at that time was aware of them and all boards since have not dealt with them. I am hopeful that if we can have conversations with a broader part of the membership that maybe we can find a solution that has not yet come to light.On the other hand the current proposal to move from subsidiary to contract Chapters is a death sentence.
Our local Chapter 17 has pretty much decided to disban if that's they way it's going to go.
Who is going to want to administer a non-profit operation at each Chapter? Not me!!!
THANK YOU for your comments, this is the kind of thing that a board of a club like this one needs. There are a lot of good people here that can pull together to find solutions, not always solutions that please every member, but ones that will meet the needs of the Club and its members.
Kurt Bangert
D4 D 78A 6678
D4 6U 1139
RD4 4G223W
D2 5U 1164
JD 350B
JD 420C
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2 years 1 month ago #241474
by neil
Cheers,
Neil
Pittsford, NY
Replied by neil on topic Letter from Concerned Members of ACMOC
I reviewed the letter a couple of days ago and passed on these thoughts to a couple of board members including the President:
- although this action by the group calling themselves "Concerned Members of ACMOC" is an amateurish and somewhat unethical attempt to bring change, I recommended that the specific concerns they have be openly responded to, since as some have noted, the club does indeed have challenges, as probably every club does. To improve, we have to recognize the shortcomings and come up with plans to overcome them
- determine whether the action is compliant with club bylaws or Oregon NFP regulations - I doubt it is based on a quick read of the bylaws. Moreover, even if within the letter of the law, it is clearly unethical for 13 people to unilaterally decide the fate of the club when the other 2000 have effectively been shut out from having a say. It is clearly not reasonable to expect the members to assemble in Podunk IL at this short notice, particularly our overseas members
- determine if the list of people named actually authorized their names to be used. I suspect not everyone named even knew that this action was going to be brought, so folks please don't damn any particular person named until they've been verified
- did the group ever raise the issues in specific and quantifiable terms with the Board such that a constructive dialog could be had. It appears not
- Does the group have specific, measurable ways to "right the ship" (their words) that can be actioned in a plan? It wasn't spelled out in this very expensive looking flyer so my first impression is no. Furthermore, many of those named are the same ex-officio that could fairly be implicated in the challenges that the club has faced over the years. Does this qualify them to be the fixers? Maybe, depends on whether they learned anything from that history, and again, whether they have a specific plan to success.
I'm sure there will be an official response from the Board and I also doubt that a) that planned meeting in Morton IL will go ahead, and b) if it does, I doubt it will have any of its intended effect (unless there's some cunning deeper strategy behind it....)
- although this action by the group calling themselves "Concerned Members of ACMOC" is an amateurish and somewhat unethical attempt to bring change, I recommended that the specific concerns they have be openly responded to, since as some have noted, the club does indeed have challenges, as probably every club does. To improve, we have to recognize the shortcomings and come up with plans to overcome them
- determine whether the action is compliant with club bylaws or Oregon NFP regulations - I doubt it is based on a quick read of the bylaws. Moreover, even if within the letter of the law, it is clearly unethical for 13 people to unilaterally decide the fate of the club when the other 2000 have effectively been shut out from having a say. It is clearly not reasonable to expect the members to assemble in Podunk IL at this short notice, particularly our overseas members
- determine if the list of people named actually authorized their names to be used. I suspect not everyone named even knew that this action was going to be brought, so folks please don't damn any particular person named until they've been verified
- did the group ever raise the issues in specific and quantifiable terms with the Board such that a constructive dialog could be had. It appears not
- Does the group have specific, measurable ways to "right the ship" (their words) that can be actioned in a plan? It wasn't spelled out in this very expensive looking flyer so my first impression is no. Furthermore, many of those named are the same ex-officio that could fairly be implicated in the challenges that the club has faced over the years. Does this qualify them to be the fixers? Maybe, depends on whether they learned anything from that history, and again, whether they have a specific plan to success.
I'm sure there will be an official response from the Board and I also doubt that a) that planned meeting in Morton IL will go ahead, and b) if it does, I doubt it will have any of its intended effect (unless there's some cunning deeper strategy behind it....)
Cheers,
Neil
Pittsford, NY
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2 years 1 month ago - 2 years 1 month ago #241477
by D4Jim
ACMOC Member 27 years
D47U 1950 #10164
Cat 112 1949 #3U1457
Cat 40 Scraper #1W-5494
Replied by D4Jim on topic Letter from Concerned Members of ACMOC
You made some good points Neil.
Usually these fiascos get started by one or two ringleaders that whip a few more followers into a frenzy and behold here we are at this point.
Amateur and unethical pretty much sums up the coup attempt.
Still waiting to see if any of the perpetrators will "man up" to apologize for the way this all came about but then again they may be too red-faced to hit the keyboard.
The present board has made a lot of good hard decisions just to keep us afloat and it was not from their doing in the first place.
Looking at previous posts by the perps (Back 10 to 12 years) doesn't really explain why for the mud slinging now.
One has to wonder why current board members would participate in a recall letter. That surely cannot be left unnoticed.
Usually these fiascos get started by one or two ringleaders that whip a few more followers into a frenzy and behold here we are at this point.
Amateur and unethical pretty much sums up the coup attempt.
Still waiting to see if any of the perpetrators will "man up" to apologize for the way this all came about but then again they may be too red-faced to hit the keyboard.
The present board has made a lot of good hard decisions just to keep us afloat and it was not from their doing in the first place.
Looking at previous posts by the perps (Back 10 to 12 years) doesn't really explain why for the mud slinging now.
One has to wonder why current board members would participate in a recall letter. That surely cannot be left unnoticed.
ACMOC Member 27 years
D47U 1950 #10164
Cat 112 1949 #3U1457
Cat 40 Scraper #1W-5494
Last edit: 2 years 1 month ago by D4Jim.
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2 years 1 month ago #241479
by Kurt Bangert
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Replied by Kurt Bangert on topic Letter from Concerned Members of ACMOC
Neil, Thank you for you comments and they are spot-on.
I am certain that the Board will address each of the items mentioned in the letter by bringing to light all the factors at play and frankly, the cold, hard facts. That way every member can work with the same information and have a better understanding. I know that all members of the board welcome innovations and possible solutions and we know that viable solutions can only come if we are all working with correct data to begin with.
What also needs to be understood is that the items that were listed in the letter as things they would like to see changed are not the only issues the Club faces! For instance, The Magazine -"they" want more issues, and we have long-serving board members that have made the magazine happen that are retiring from service and no one has stepped up to be nominated to the board let alone take on the magazine. It's easy to say "let's have 50% more issues", but the hard part is making that happen. Who will do it? How will it be funded?
My assertion is that to make this club grow we have to have member involvement and that can't just be left to the "old guard", or the "board", or someone unknown, it takes real people, real effort and real dollars to make these things happen. It takes positive member involvement. We can and should have constructive disagreements where all parties have the Club's interests at heart, and from that create a better path forward.
Kurt Bangert
I am certain that the Board will address each of the items mentioned in the letter by bringing to light all the factors at play and frankly, the cold, hard facts. That way every member can work with the same information and have a better understanding. I know that all members of the board welcome innovations and possible solutions and we know that viable solutions can only come if we are all working with correct data to begin with.
What also needs to be understood is that the items that were listed in the letter as things they would like to see changed are not the only issues the Club faces! For instance, The Magazine -"they" want more issues, and we have long-serving board members that have made the magazine happen that are retiring from service and no one has stepped up to be nominated to the board let alone take on the magazine. It's easy to say "let's have 50% more issues", but the hard part is making that happen. Who will do it? How will it be funded?
My assertion is that to make this club grow we have to have member involvement and that can't just be left to the "old guard", or the "board", or someone unknown, it takes real people, real effort and real dollars to make these things happen. It takes positive member involvement. We can and should have constructive disagreements where all parties have the Club's interests at heart, and from that create a better path forward.
Kurt Bangert
D4 D 78A 6678
D4 6U 1139
RD4 4G223W
D2 5U 1164
JD 350B
JD 420C
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