If you go to Chicago Craigslist under heavy equipment there was a Ashland scraper listed there Wednesday that works with one hydraulic circuit that works very similar to my C-45 LaPlant-Choate that I pull behind my D2
Chuck C

Hi, Case on a Cat.
The Torque Plate, a couple of forms of which are shown in photos from Glum and Keloz earlier in this thread, transfers to load from an ATTACHED implement, a ripper or a 3-pt linkage unit, direct to the drawbar pull point under the tractor. It does this through bolts which attach the torque plate to the bottom of the ripper towers or 3-pt mounting plate. The Torque Plate is always a fraction of an inch shorter than the actual distance between the drawbar pull point and the ripper towers or 3-pt mounting plate. This gap is almost completely taken up with shims and then the attaching bolts are tightened so that both the bolts and Torque Plate are under tension. this effectively transfers the pulled load from the bottom of the towers or mounting plate straight to the drawbar pull point.

Got it now? If not, don't panic. We'll just put out a call to all the good-hearted folks out there to ask if anybody can supply photos of this arrangement from either a 941 or a 951 fitted with rippers.

There may have been a 3-pt linkage mounting plate manufactured for D2s but I suspect that they would now be almost as common as hen's teeth and rocking horse manure. OR, to quote the immortal OzDozer, from whom we haven't heard in years, they would be made of 'unobtainium'. To the best of my knowledge, Cat never was 'optimistic' enough to make a ripper for a D2. If I am right, they would alos never have made a ripper mounting plate for same. For a lad with your fabricating skills, I doubt that would be an issue.

Just my 0.02.

"Deas wrote:

Hi, Folks.

Hi, MrsMP.
I would venture to suggest that you can have a top link with a bend in it 'cos I have seen a couple and the owners/users didn't seem to want to complain about them.

Just my 0.02.

on a top link sensing 3PL I think a bent top link would and could make a huge difference as the draft control corrects and adjusts load over a dozen times a second things only have to be little bit out of adjustment and you really feel shaking in the tractor as in everything is moving as the draft control works

It is a precision piece of machinery and when working correctly can increase out put by as much 20% or more compared to no draft control

And then that takes us onto pressure control ?? now thats whole different beast

Paul

Hi, MrsMP.
Onna D2? I could be wrong 'cos I don't know just how fastidious or determined he might be, but I suspect that Case on a Cat would be happy to have a functional 3-pt linkage on his D2 without necessarily wanting all the 'frills-n-fripperies'.

Then again, ........................................................................................

Just my 0.02.

I suspect you would be right there Deas

After market linkage kits for crawlers and tractors dont have top link sensing some use strain gauges in the lower links to provide draft control and these are very accurate and my neighbor uses one of these type set ups on a trailed linkage scoop like we are talking about but much bigger on a wheeled tractor and it will load fully with little wheel slip at all as the lower link draft keeps a constant load on the tractor and corrects the scoop height so maybe something to look into as well as the tractor is pre electronic but this is a add on

Paul

Hi, MrsMP.
Do you have some idea of the cost of such a set-up? And what would be involved in setting it up on a pre-electronic tractor?

This curious mind would like to know.

I suspect that if Case on a Cat can get that scraper set up behind the D2, he won't have a lot of issues with traction in any sort of reasonable ground. Back in 1964, a neighboring farm to where I was working, which had been farming with a 4U D2 for many years, decided that they would buy themselves a wheel tractor. Hence an 80 hp John Deere was added to the stable - can't remember the model. One day, the two sons had a bright idea - they decided to test the 2 tractors against each other. A heavy chain was used to link the 2 tractors back to back - - - - and the 38 hp D2 dragged the 80 hp JD kicking and screaming backwards across the yard.

Just my 0.02.

Deas no idea on the cost and I doubt you could buy of the shelf linkage kit for a D2 but the ideas are there and strain gauges are readily available in pins of different sizes as they are used in cranes etc for load measuring and its not a big stretch to instead of alarm going off or light or what ever to put a relay in to a soleniod valve to control the scoop


However I have been wondering why would someone just not make up some brackets to bolt to a number 2 toolbar to hook the scoop to it would solve all these pesky 3 PL problems

Having said that I dont know how successful the D 2 with linkage or a tool bar would be as the D 2 is fairly unstable front to rear at the best of times let alone try to fill a scoop that is hanging off the back !!! as the scoops weight changes, I think the D 2 would be shifting all over the place and the cutting edge as well

Hence right back at the start the first thing I asked was wheels gunna be put on the front to help reduce this ????


Paul

Hi, MrsMP.
Not fit a toolbar? For the same reason that a dozer on the front of a D2 without the larger front idlers is a challenge, the same reason that has you asking again about fitting front wheels to the can. I am thinking along the lines of locking the vertical 'kingpost' pivot AND the up-n-down horizontal pivot out, putting a 2 - 3 - 4-foot drawbar tongue on the front connecting to a 3-pt linkage on the D2, with a diverter valve to switch between emptying the can and using the 3-pt for loading.

The longer drawbar on the scraper would lessen the load on the back end of the D2 which would help to ease the pitching and would also lessen the effect of any pitching on the scraper.

But it's not my D2, not my scraper and NOT my money. ALL of that is up to Case on a Cat. BUTTT, if it works well behind the Ford Jubilee, he will have faster cycle times than he would ever get with the Cat. The only real reason then for setting it up on the D2 would be for poor traction conditions.

Having seen the photos of the work that he has done on the dozer blade, I'd be VERY surprised if Case on a Cat could not manage to put a workable 3-pt hitch on the back of the D2 - - - IF he so desired - and hopefully bearing in mind the idea of the Torque Plate to save later grief with the back end becoming a 'meccano set'.

Just mt 0.02.

"Neil" wrote:

To follow up in my own words (and real engineers please correct my terminology), the weight transfer refers to applying a turning moment around the (back axle in this case) such that the "weight" of the front of the tractor is now somewhat supported by the back axle. To accomplish that, the implement needs to effect the turning moment, downwards. A plough will do that because it can attempt to "pull itself into the ground" based on its angle of attack. The JD lawn mower group I belong to has spring and fall plow days. Some of us attending have 3-pt linkages and others have a single bar that is levered off the back of the lawnmower. In both cases, the plow acts the same and transfers the weight from the front of the tractor to the rear axle. I think this is the key factor in weight transfer - that there is a turning moment applied to the hitch, whether it be 3pt with parallel links, non-parallel, or even this JD attachment type (name escapes me currently). You can see it with a non-ground engaging tool such as a carry box, where, if you load it up enough, the front wheels come off the ground. In addition to that, there is the torque reaction from the drive axle, wanting to make the front of the tractor rear up.
Not quite sure how linkage geometry plays into this - perhaps it magnifies or reduces the effect depending on the angles as the implement moves through its range of motion? I'm sure there's a study somewhere that lays it all out.
[It's a slow day in the office....]

Neil

Whilst I was out in the paddock today I thought of something else you may or may not find helpful when ploughing as a general rule if the tractor pulls to the ploughed land you need to increase the top link length to make the rear of the plough slightly deeper which applies more load to the rear of the plough and will pull the plough back around towards the unploughed land and its the same the other way of course

I am not sure if this works the same on a single furrow plough as a multi furrow plough but its the way a multi furrow plough works

When the plough is set right you should be able to plough with your hands off the steering wheel and the tractor should drive straight ahead providing the soil conditions stat the same if there is a lite patch of soil correction will be needed but only for that patch and how much correction will vary

Also when a 3PL plough is set right you wont need any depth wheels most of the time as the lift arms will be in a neutral position and the top link will be providing the balance

Sorry for taking this way off topic it just sort of happened

Paul