EDB, I really appreciate the scanned pics. I am soaking it up! I worked and worked on the winch today to try to figure out a more positive test. I really wanted to get down to the bevel gear inside the winch so I could confirm it has some wiggle, and do a quick visual inspect, but it would take some time. I pulled the cover over the valve block in the winch and not much seemed out of place. If the brake clutch is supposed to be in oil, that section appears mostly dry. A little oil in there. I pulled the oil fill plug on the top right of the winch to inspect gears and such and oil level was about right and oil looked reasonable.

I then got down on that yoke to get my own hands on it to try to detect a little play. I reasoned that I should hear a clunk as the winch backlash was taken up, but that input shaft does not want to blink.

At this point I should be looking for all the books and info I can get my hands on, both for a rebuild, but also how that trans will want to come out. There is one guy online that pulled one and their efforts were pretty vane and it wasn't pretty. It looks like there is a huge mess of stuff that has to come apart to get the trans out.

I am curious if this site has pdf books on this machine? I do have the military books but the images were poorly scanned and info seems rather vague.

This winch does not have the typical early type direct drive pinion. The input clutch drives transfer gears to a pinion in this case. At best you might detect free play between the transfer gears with the input shaft locked up. You could try checking for back lash by rotating the input clutch drum but you will not get a reading if the clutch is locked up. You will not be able to drive the winch drum without oil pressure to either the forward or reverse clutch.

OM, I am not quite sure of this "input clutch" you speak of, but I have found pics of some other D7H winches for sale that have the same solid pinion shaft coming out maybe 2-3ft. It would seem on those, the PTO shaft drives the pinion mated shaft all the time, but it takes oil pressure to engage one of the direction clutches in the Winch to engage it.

Is that the way you understand them? I am not trying to argue, I am just trying to avoid pulling a transmission only to learn a stupid winch caused all the drama. Personally, I doubt that is the case, but I like the cross T's. If I could get any movement at all from the trans input shaft, I would go further, but I can't buy that as anything but a trans issue right now.

Because of the question marks, I plan to pull the top hat on the trans, pull the valve body, and inspect/test the clutches with air. I just want some proof that the trans needs to come out before I go that far.

Hi Team,
a Direct drive Winch will have no clutches other than 2 mechanically shifted dog clutches with sliding dogs to engage either Fwd or Rev direction by cables and forks on its bevel gear shaft which can be seen when viewed down inside top cover of the winch.

A Power Controlled winch will have 2 oil actuated pressure applied clutches on the bevel shaft that via the winch's Hyd. control spools engages either FWD or Rev clutch as desired.

The manual attached above shows these differences both for the Direct drive and the Power Controlled winches.
Some pictures looking down in the winch could help as well as a picture of each side of the winch I may or may not help us decide which form of drive you winch has.
I am sure that a Direct drive winch will have a different Serial Number prefix to a Power Controlled unit.

Noting your winch S/No and contacting Allied should sort the type.
Due to medical tests imminent I have not time at this point to check the manual above to see if it does give the S/N prefix for each specific type of drive winch.

However by your description of no movement what so ever at the transmission input shaft flange it would be certain that the lockup is within the transmission.
Maybe the easiest thing is to remove the winch and see if you get movement--the winch needs to come off in any case to remove and refit the trans. due to alignment issues with the Trans. and Winch shaft centre lines and spline connection entering engagement.

Hope this makes sense.
Regards,
Eddie B.

OK, my bad. I was describing the Cat #57 winch which has the input clutch.
The Hyster D7H is a straight drive to bevel gear cross shaft with the two direction clutches only.

You mentioned on page 13 that you could only feel transmission going into 1st and 2nd. This has got me thinking that my suggestion that something is wrong with the front carrier in the transmission is correct.

I believe you are actually selecting 2nd and 3rd and when lever pushed hard forward into neutral position, you are in 1st because of linkage wear and adjustment. This is disaster waiting to happen, if it has been operated like this it means that it has been snapping/banging from forward to reverse as there is no modulation on the direction clutches. This will have caused a catastrophic failure in the front carrier where the direction clutches are located. Who ever was operating at the time of the failure will most certainly know that it happened, man it would have made some noise.

To save time and energy, remove winch, verify input shaft will still not tern, then remove transmission, you are wasting time and energy trying to do anything else.

Wombat

I am confident this is a power controlled winch.

As for the 3rd gear issue, I can feel the 3rd detent when not running, and I actually got it to 3rd a couple times but I think the main issue with that is very low trans pressure after filters, then pressure drops even more if a gear is selected and a lot of pressure is lost by the time I get back to 3rd.

I replaced pressure side filters (should have replaced to start with) after seeing obvious proof there was massive restriction there. Pump was at 300psi or so, and gauge after filters was reading like 30. When I pulled those filters, there was a slimy mess, but no metal shavings. One filter had actually been blown out due to the restriction. Plastic inner cage was broke, and top piece was blown out.

I replaced filters hoping for a "little" change, but the issue actually got worse because the new filters were not blown out so pressure was lower. I feel confident the oil is complete junk and plugging everything. That does not account for the locked input shaft but I have a theory that I have hung up clutch pistons and no good pressure to see if they will unstick.

This is why my next step is pull the top of the trans, get the valve body off, and inspect what I can see with the clutches, and manually fire them with compressed air. I do realize if they will not let go as they are now, that is a problem, but also possible the lack of oil pressure has just caused an odd bind up.

I also have no clue what happened before me and entirely possible a tech totally killed the trans. If I find something all wadded up, I can feel confident that was not me. I have not heard one peep from that trans since I started testing. No clunks, no thumps, no nothing.

And as I mentioned, when I had the filler cap off, I could see a large amount of oil boiling over the valve body when I put it in gear. This was at very low idle and with very low trans pressure to the valves so I think with proper pressure/volume, they would be spraying like mad in there.

trans linkage when well worn--usually the vertical shaft bushes that transfer the linkage motion into the trans to the valves have too much wear--it requires that the opertators lever is Flicked between 2nd to neutral to get the trans vavle to move to neautral by virtue of linkage inertia forces carrying the even thru.
For this reason I previously suggested that the small vert. trans shafts are move by hand.   

EDIT If Speed the lever cannot be moved on these older units it is a big spring that oil pressure retracts and allow movement into gear
One shaft is the direction lever---either fwd or rev. the other is the speed lever which has N,1,2,3.
You should be able to feel the detent's notching in to place in the Fwd and Rev lever quadrant-- the speed lever will be locked in neutral--in your manual should be a description of the safety valve operation which would cause the speeds to be locked in neutral.
It is a fact that if the trans is in a gear--2 clutches engaged-- that the safety valve will b set and due to this there could likely be no clutch pressure.

Again if the Trans input shaft is locked at all times there has been mechanical intercourse within the trans to cause this--you have no slight movement either way in the shaft so it is not the winch in my opinion.
eddie B
Sorry I should not be writing as I have just had a medical procedure that the out come was the best news for some years.

Sorry I should not be writing as I have just had a medical procedure that the out come was the best news for some years.

I hope this means you're going to be around for a long time.

Hi Mike,
as I ages the issue due to mutated gene intervention seems to be decreasing ---Fingers crossed.
Thank you for your concern and comment--do we not all aim to live to 100--most of us need longer to complete the projects at hand.
Regards,
eddie B.