one solution could be this:

to have all chapters as member clubs of the larger organisation that is acmoc. each of the clubs then pay a club dues to acmoc and the members pay a combined membership fee to their local club as well as acmoc the local clubs collect this fee and pass on the relevant portion to acmoc.

all current subsideries could automatically become member clubs if they so wish. they would just need a constitution of their own (im not sure if they would need to be incorporated but its better if they do. this would have to be checked with a suitable lawyer first) its easy in my jurisdiction as our state's office of fair trading drafted a model constitution for community groups and they suggest you use it with the only changes being the name of the group and the relevant dates etc.

this would mean the chapters and acmoc are not financially or legally responsible for each other as they are separate entities.


(this is how its done with my club and our national body the NHMA. a couple of the australian acmoc chapters are affiliated with the NHMA for insurance purposes. (for acmoc to provide world wide insurance cover would be a absolute nightmare and very very expensive) so a reduced fee for overseas chapters would be appropriate as no insurance cover would be provided.

none of this is legal advice its my own opinion and would need clarification with a suitably qualified person.

Kurt - Again, I appreciate the continued dialog. I would like to see others on the BOD provide explanations for their reasoning but maybe we will see that as their time zones come around.

My apologies for beating a dead horse on this, but I have spent countless hours over the last few years bringing my chapter from the brink of failure to a still small but solid group who has made significant contributions to ACMOC's mission, only to get hit by a now-retracted BOD directive that threatened to undo all of that.

My take-away from this dialog so far is that the BOD as a whole is responsible for the chapter decision, and they ALL didn't do enough homework on this. Again, I know many of the concerns from the chapters that have gotten this decision reversed were voiced by others before the final decision was made. So my question is, why was that input overruled before, but recognized now? It's great to encourage discussion and dialog, but if there is a track record of ignoring it and doing what the BOD wants anyway that message rings a bit hollow.

I'm all for giving Mulligans, but when you are told you are shooting in the wrong direction and shoot that way anyway, I'm less inclined to be that generous.

Thanks,
Dave Tallon
President - ACMOC Chapter 20

Dave, maybe the BoD did enough homework on the Subsidiary Chapter issue, just didn't communicate it sufficiently clearly. What hasn't been communicated is the significant administrative burden/cost to manage subsidiary chapters properly. Currently there are a lot of things not done in this regards that should be done to comply with regulations within the states that these chapters operate in, as well the ACMOC club treasurer is supposed to have working access to all subsidiary chapter bank accounts where they exist, a full register of all chapter assets that actually belong to the Club. Currently the insurance of these chapters is the entity only, not the individual. Due to the lack of proper state registrations, the insurance is quite possibly null and void anyway.

So who is going to pay the insurance, initial state registration fees, annual returns with fee and actually pay for the labour and administration to do all of this, follow up the tardy chapters that don't provide the relevant required information etc.

The contract chapters do all of this without any expense to the club or other members, so is it equitable that they cover their own costs and also subsidize the subsidiary chapters? The club has very limited funds, so all areas of expenses are being looked at and the equitability of same so the burden is fairly distributed in running the club.

I have no issue with subsidiary chapters, providing they pay their costs of operation, ie; the cost of employing someone to do all of this work as well as the payments require. It may well prove cheaper to be a contract chapter.

Maybe some chapters would be better off not being a chapter, just an interest group or social group where there is no insurable risk, only where there is an insurable risk do they carry the chapter designation..

Regards, Neil Clydsdale (Past President)

Neil - I appreciate your input as one who has stepped up to the plate not only as a board member but as a former club president. On the one hand the message is that the BOD didn't fully understand the ramifications of the proposed action, the other is that they did understand it but didn't deliver the message properly. Which is it?

I understand that the current chapter situation is untenable. What also seems apparent is that chapters were forced into a one-size-fits-all approach that works for some chapters but not all. There was no collaboration, and no opportunity for chapters to discuss alternatives that might fit their situation. I don't have a problem with chapters "paying their own way" as you propose, but that was not given to us as an option.

I also don't disagree with your idea of being an interest group instead of a chapter. As I have spent way too much time considering the path forward for my Chapter, I have seriously considered if we need to be a chapter at all per club definition. Again, no options have been presented to me that would compel me, if I continued as an independent group, to support ACMOC beyond blind allegiance.

I've been here 18 years. My affiliation with ACMOC is older than my oldest son. I can't express how much I want the club to survive, and thrive. I just feel the current leadership made a major misstep on chapters, and simple lip service isn't going to cut it. Hopefully in the multiple proposed meetings we can see where the current leadership stands on various club issues, and decide who is better suited to lead the club into the future.

Dave, I am in possession of a series of emails dating back to March 3rd 2007 and alter through September 2011. The BoD then knew that the subsidiary chapters and insurance and administration of their affairs was a legal and insurance liability issue. The matter was not addressed then, just passed down the road as being too hard to deal with. Look at the Directors at that time and look at some of the names appearing in the rebels letter and proposed slate, need I say more. The current BoD has decided that it was time to deal with this mess that has existed and the knowledge of, by the BoD for at least 15 years.

There is a desperate need to clean up a lot of issues, they can not all be done at once, just in a progressive manner with the limited resources available. To servive the Club needs to restructure and progress into the future, going back to past practices/management etc will be certain failure and death for the Club. Members need to understand that there may not be many options to dealing with issues just past down the line, as unsavory as the needed actions may be.

Regards, Wombat

Hi, Wombat.
Couldn'ta said it any better my own self. I don't have access to the e-mails that you have. But I have, for some strange reason, had some 'insight' into some of the club's affairs from 'various sources' over the last 12 years or so and I have come up with pretty much the same picture that you have described, 'painted' by the very same people to whom you refer.

Mineselfer bin thinkit that handing the helm back to them would be a surefire recipe for disaster. Wotz moor, I think the way they have gone about having their 'concerns' addressed just affirms that view.

Just my 0.02.

Hi, FroghairFarm.
This raises the question for each individual chapter of which approach is best for them AND ditto for the club as a whole as to which approach gives the best bang for the least buck - including costs, potential liabilities and man- or woman- power required to manage it all. As you and others have already mentioned, this can has been kicked down the road for a while, long enough to have a few dings in it, and NONE of the dings have made it any lighter or any easier to predict which way the can will go when kicked.

Perhaps it's time for the club as a whole to start being 'good citizens' and pick the danged can up and put it where it belongs. This might be something that those two lawyers who poked their heads up outa the woodwork might like to get their teeth into. It may well turn out to be a can FULL of worms when it comes to international laws and regulations.

Just my 0.02.