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d6b 44a questions

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15 years 4 months ago #35780 by OzDozer
Replied by OzDozer on topic d6b 44a questions
crazylegs - Engines are the relatively simple and lower-cost fix part of crawlers. If the undercarriage is in excellent shape, it's worthwhile persevering with the engine repair, to get the tractor running again, rather than scrapping it. If the undercarriage is shot, scrapping is the viable option, because undercarriage rebuild will run into more than the tractor is worth. However engine repair rarely runs into more than 25% of tractor value.

It appears that you are being set with more hassles than needed, due to the previous owners family problems and poor approach to repairs. Finding the missing parts is vital before you continue, or you will need to outlay some serious $$'s to purchase them.

The head weighs around 150 lbs, it's a 2-man job to lift it off. Commence with some penetrant in the cylinder bores as soon as possible. Yes, other areas such as flywheel and clutch have been known to jam the engine from turning. Look for critters nests, nuts, or even dropped tools and bolts that might be interfering with flywheel and clutch rotation.

The track needs to be tightened to measure internal wear accurately. This track uses a 6.75" pitch, so the pitch (pin and bushing internal wear) measurement (over 4 links = 5 pins), new, is 27.03". 100% worn is 27.51".

The track chains should use a link P/N of 2S5959 or 2M 8663, unless later design track chains are fitted. These P/N links have a rail height (measured squarely from the underside of the track shoe) of 4.00" when new. 100% worn rail height is 3.63".

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15 years 4 months ago #35783 by Old Magnet
Replied by Old Magnet on topic d6b 44a questions
I have two pieces of info on cylinder head weight:
Cylinder head bare....160 lbs.
From the 44A service manual it's stated as approximately 325 lbs and of coarse they recommend a suitable hoist. It's not just the weight, they are plenty awkward to wrestle with. That's a job for a backhoe or loader, not worth wrecking ones back:)

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15 years 4 months ago #35787 by Deas Plant.
Replied by Deas Plant. on topic Lifting the head.
Hi, Crazylegs.
I have lifted a new Cat D9G bottom track roller on my own at 356 lbs. I can assure you that there is NO way that I would try to lift that head off at 325 lbs - too many things to hang up on you. A bit of rust around a bolt, the gasket stuck somewhere and you have a back injury or something.

At the very least, make up a tripod out of 3x3 or 4x4 timbers or some suitable pipe or RHS steel tube and use a chain lift or block and tackle or a come-along to take the weight. Have some sacking or some timbers on one track to lower it down on when you get it off - believe me, it can be awkward trying to put something there to lower it on to when you have all that weight on your hands, even if you are only pulling it sideways.

I actually prefer the tripod idea as it is more steady and more delicate that using an F.E. loader or backhoe, unless you only use the machine as a lifting attachment point to anchor a chain lift or similar. Even then, you still have the problem of hydraulic creep unless you prop the boom up with something pretty substantial.

I'm not familar with the flywheels and clutches on the D6B's but, following up on OzDozer's mention of the possibility, it might be worth removing any inspection covers on the clutch housing and checking for 'foreign bodies' or loose objects in there that might be fouling the works before you pull the head.

I keep coming back to that 1/4" movement either way bit. If you had the clutch disengaged when you tried that movement, it means that the problem pretty much has to be in either the engine or the flywheel/clutch housing. A stray bolt wedged under the flywheel could easily cause that.

Happy hunting and best of luck.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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15 years 4 months ago #35789 by crazylegs
Replied by crazylegs on topic d6b 44a questions
Thanks Oz, OM, and Deas. That is all great info. I am planning on going out there Monday morning. I do not have access to a hoist or any equipment where the thing is located, it is about an hour away out in a muddy field my backhoe is only two wheel drive and I am pretty sure it will not make it back there let alone back out at least right now. The plan right now is to get the head off on Monday if at all possible. I will have to give it some thought as to how to do that.

I have the starter off I wonder if something was jammed in the clutch if I could see the gears wanting to turn by looking through the starter hole. just a thought. We are planning on pushing it up on the trailer if it is a bolt in the clutch I will know it then. just thinking out loud here.

d47u, 933, td7, international 2500a, d180 wheelhorse, good wife, three kids, 11 goats, 12 chickens, one pig, and loven life.

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15 years 4 months ago #35791 by Deas Plant.
Replied by Deas Plant. on topic Lifting the head.
Hi, Crazylegs.
If you can get your hands on a couple of good 2"x6" planks about 8 feet long, a decent hydraulic jack and some 1/4" to 3/8" chain or good rope, you may have enough to lift that head. Nail, or better, bolt the planks together with 2"x4" spacers between them to give you a beam with a 4" gap between the 2 planks. 3 of these 2x4 spacers should be enough, 1 either end and 1 in the middle.

Lay this beam across the gap between the hard nose and the firewall. Place the hydraulic jack on top of the beam. Pass the chain or rope up through the gap in the beam, over the top of the jack and back down through the beam.

Many Cat heads are fitted with lifting lugs. If yours doesn't have them, you will need to improvise - safely, I hope. Lifting eyes screwed into rocker cover bolt holes or whatever works safely. Attech your chain or rope to whatever lift points you have, tighten it to remove all the slack and start jacking.

I dont know if the head on that engine is help down by studs and nuts or by bolts screwed into the block. If they are studs and nuts, you will need a jack with enough lift height to at least get the head up far enough to pack it with timber across the top of the block so that you can get another bite at it.

I have used this method to lift the head off a Cat 769A dump truck - beat the heck out of trying to lift it by hand.

Happy exploring.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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15 years 4 months ago #35794 by OzDozer
Replied by OzDozer on topic d6b 44a questions
I've lifted the heads off my old D6C's many a time (same engine) without lifting aids .. and they sure aren't light. I never thought they'd make 325 lbs. However, the brother and myself used to get them off O.K. .. and neither of us are built like Arnie. EVERYTHING is heavy when it comes to crawler tractors .. :)

The major problem, is when you come to re-install .. because there are a big heap of small brass ferrules that have to be lined up when you re-install .. and that head has to go back on .. straight, slow, and LEVEL.
Any misalignment, and you'll crush a ferrule, and you have to pull the head AGAIN. In addition, you often don't realise you've crushed a ferrule until you have a serious leak, right after startup .. :(

This basically means you have to utilise some kind of lifting aid to re-install. A pipe tripod utilised along with a small come-along or chain fall, would be my choice.
The head uses bolts, not studs, so there's no head guidance as with studs. You can acquire/fabricate and fit a couple of guide studs to aid re-installation.

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15 years 4 months ago #35797 by Old Magnet
Replied by Old Magnet on topic d6b 44a questions
Also add the following to your undercarriage measurement:
Grouser height.....new 2.12 in.....100% worn at 0.88 in.
Bushing diameter....new 2.12 in.....100% worn at 2.00 in.

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15 years 4 months ago #35799 by SJ
Replied by SJ on topic 44A Head Bolts
Deas, the 44A has a D333 engine so they have bolts in them, not studs and nuts.When dropping a head down on if you can come up with a couple studs to screw in it makes it easier to get the head to drop down straight in place as I always used them at the shop and then the ferrules and seals line up perfect then too with the head.

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15 years 4 months ago #35809 by crazylegs
Replied by crazylegs on topic d6b 44a questions
I am wanting to get back there and work on it again I can't wait until tomorrow especially to measure the undercarriage I want to see what it is at and see if the diesel did its job on helping to loosen up the thing. I may just have to wait to get it here to lift the head off I can't see messing something up just cause I am in a hurry especially my back I can't just go to the cat store and get a new one of them even at there prices.

d47u, 933, td7, international 2500a, d180 wheelhorse, good wife, three kids, 11 goats, 12 chickens, one pig, and loven life.

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15 years 4 months ago #35818 by Old Magnet
Replied by Old Magnet on topic d6b 44a questions
I like your thinking:) :) Back replacement or other buggered up body part repairs just ain't worth it. Hard not to get excited I know but it will be there for another day.

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