acmoc

ACMOC Membership Benefits

  • FREE quarterly magazine filled with content about antique Caterpillar machines
  • FREE classified listings
  • ACMOC store discounts and specials
  • Full Bulletin Board Access
    • Marketplace (For Sale/Wanted)
    • Technical Library
    • Post attachments

$44 /year ELECTRONIC

$60 /year USA

$77 /year International

Not Cat but very Cool, a 1927 Kenworth with a radial diesel engine

More
11 years 6 months ago #89375 by steamdrum1
Caterpillar built a radial diesel for a short time during WW2, in fact there was an entire plant built in Decatur IL to manufacture the engines called the Caterpillar Military Engine Plant. The engine was to be used in sherman tanks. Caterpillar engineers redesinged a radial aircraft engine to operate on the diesel cycle. The engine was built, proved out, and even installed in a few tanks. Unfortunatley the U.S. Army operated on gasoline at the time and forsaw logistical problems with getting diesel to where it would have been needed when everything else was running on and hauling gas. There was also a huge demand for Caterpillar track-type tractors at the time, so the plant was re-tooled to manufacture tractor parts instead. Following the war and the reduced demand, Caterpillar left the factory and it was purchased by Harvey Firestone and became a Firestone tire plant until a few years ago when Firestone closed the plant. Oddly enough Caterpillar has once again leased a majority of the old Firestone plant to use as material storage and build up area to supply the Decatur plant. I have done some research about the Caterpillar Military Engine Plant and the radial diesel here in local librarys and such. I have found some very interesting articles and a few photos of the plant and the engines that were built there. As a interesting side note, the plant was built as a U.S. Victory plant, as such it followed a general design that was set up by the military. The power house had a large triple expansion steam engine( the same as used on liberty ships) to produce power for use in the factory.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 6 months ago #89376 by edb
Replied by edb on topic Cartridges
Hi Karl,
the only ones I had I was given by a mate so are only available as New.Old.Stock.
They come in sealed cans of about 6" dia with some 20 cartidges per can. You use a sardine can type key to open the cans.
The cartridges are electrically fired. They have a brass contact strip where the percussion cap would normally go.
The breech is set up with an electric contact pin connected to the tanks electrical system--the good book says you can use a 1.5 volt torch cell to fire them in an emergency--just takes a while to get the initiator up to firing temp with the lower voltage.
I guess some one could re-load them but the amount of propellent would be the problem to work out.
They have a special load of cordite( I think) pellets.
The cartridge load is slow burning from the open end of the cartridge so as to not expell the propellent--the propellent is to purely make gas pressure to push the starter units piston down--like a pump action screw driver--to turn the engine about 1 turn.
The cases are about 1 1/16" dia and 3.7" long. Googling finds size is 4 gauge.
The spent ones I have are branded Breeze. I have sent any unfired ones I had off with the engine when I sold it.
I was warned by Bob Chamberlain--of our Aussie Chamberlain tractor fame--that there are some winter load cartridges about and they are known to twist crankshafts. I never found out how to tell the difference. I had the correct cartridges and he said the others were coded/coloured different ???
People have been killed by the breech rear blowing out so always keep clear of the rear of the breech when firing--I always put a spud bag over my breech if I fired the Coffman/Breeze starter.
I also had a big inertia starter from a petrol/gas radial that fitted and used to mostly use it for safety reasons --especially at air shows or engine rallies.
Bob Chamberlain and Phil Irving (of Vincent motorcycle and Repco Brabham F1 engine fame) were both seconded to England during WW2 to engineer the kits and mods. needed to fit the Guiberson engines to the Stuarts--amongst other hush hush projects for the war effort.
There were also some T1400 Guibersons fitted to some M3 Lee tanks. I have a photocopy of a well used T1400 service manual indicating some were here downunder.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 6 months ago #89382 by John Neal
This is a really interesting thread, for a diesel radial would be a sight to see and hear.

I forget the exact reference, but I think it was during World War II that Caterpillar made at least a short production run of air-cooled radial diesel engines for M3s and the like. For some reason they didn't stick at it but it would be interesting to learn how they went and why Cat didn't continue.

Kind regards

John

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 6 months ago #89383 by KarlRobbers
Interesting info regarding the starting cartridges, obviously quite a bit larger than the cartridges for Fowler Tractors.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 6 months ago #89384 by D349
Replied by D349 on topic A bit more info on Cat RD-1820
G'day. Did a bit of digging, found a cat magazine we were given at the dealership in 1984 covering a century since Holt and Best started manufacturing in California. It has 6 pages on Cat's WW2 effort and the first page I have scanned and attached it has little info on the diesel radial they built, the rest of the article says they did a lot of other things early in the war then by mid 43 the government wanted them to concentrate on the construction equipment particularly D7's

Kevin
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 6 months ago #89399 by edb
Hi Team,
there were only 120 RD1820's built.
There are some 13 pages of pix and writeup on these engines in the "Caterpillar Military Tractors Vol. 2" Photo Archive book by Letourneau. Published by Iconographix 1994. All taken from Cats Archives.

ISBN 1-882256-17-4

Libray of Congress Card Number 94-16266

The RD1820 engines were rated at 450 Hp at 2000 rpm and exerted 1470 lbs/ft torque at 1200 rpm, and were 1823 cub in displacement, they were a pre-combustion chamber design engine with 15:1 compression ratio.
These engines were developed from the Wright Cyclone aircraft engine of the day.

Cheers,
Eddie B.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 6 months ago #89407 by Soapy
While radials are a topic, a fellow that worked with my father all of his adult life, except for serving in the Navy during WW2, was on a wood hulled sub chaser that was powered by radials, where the cylinders rotated around the crankshaft.

Anyone have any knowledge of this type of an engine?
Inquiring minds want to know.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 6 months ago #89414 by edb
Replied by edb on topic Rotary Engines
Hi Soapy,
the type you describe are known as rotary engines.
They were used in WW1 fighter planes so it would be a retro step to put these in a boat as cooling would be an issue.
Some amphibious landing craft were fitted with W670 Continental radials as per the Stuart tanks.
I am always keen to learn more about applications for these engines so look forward to any replies to your question.



I believe there were WW1 Liberty style V12 engines built by Gar-wood and/or Hall-Scott used in wooden patrol boats during WW2.

Lots of interesting things happened during that time to get power plants for various applications.
Cheers,
Eddie B.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 6 months ago #89469 by Pat in WI
Great thread going here...love the information and history presented.

EDB, you are not boring us at all...keep the stories and pictures coming about your love of diesel engines.

They have one of those WWI radials (Le Rhone) that the case and cylinders spun around the fixed crankshaft at the Museum of Flight in Charlotte NC. It was interesting to see how they had to take the extra steps to make sure all the cylinders were the same weight for balance reasons. I always wanted to see how the carburetor was mounted because I could not imagine it rotating around...as it turned out...the carburetor was fixed to a tube over the back of the crankshaft that delivered the air/fuel mixture to the cylinders as they passed over an intake port.

Cool Stuff!!

Pat

Pat in WI

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 years 6 months ago #89680 by zootownjeepguy

On the back, I believe its a cummings up front

The owner did a few starting demos during the day. It uses a air starter and sounds Fine, This is the first radial Diesel I am aware of seeing, if I have seen one before I wasant aware of what it was.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guiberson_A-1020


The truck and engine belong to Jack Heemsoth (sp?). I know Jack (although I've been told many times I don't know jack), he lives near Marshall, Mi. Jack has many cool toys and brings them to several shows in Michigan and Indiana.

Rich Salvaggio
D2 5U9917
'46 Willys CJ2A Farm Jeep, '39 Buick sedan, '49 International KB-7, '37 Allis Chalmers WC, Cushman Scooter(s)
Antique garden tractors & outboard motors
Other rusty old junk comes & goes without warning.

The 2 most useful tools to have in your shop are a Crystal Ball...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.186 seconds
Go to top