I believe that somewhere in the lifetime of D2-J models there was an increase in the number of leaves on the Main Spring to eliminate Customer complaints of being "Nose Heavy".
While I've read this Thread off and on, my opinion is that the Blade/Lift assembly on your tractor is too heavy, this coupled with the Idler size, with possibly the Main Spring being weak. These are the source of your aggravation, I push dirt at Tractor Shows with my D2-5J and can hold a grade as good as the bigger and newer machines. I use mine for brush clearing and pond cleaning and have found that as long as you remember its not a D6 or D8.
Then you will do just fine with it.
By the way, I have good grouser hieght and will usually spin the tracks till I get a good load on, then hunker down and lug through the push.
My 2 Cents,
Jeff

Hi, 4D2Ken.
I have only ever gotten my fvaourite rump steak on one D2, a 5U that had the standard Cat hydraulic straight dozer fitted and was running large front idlers. I found much the same as Drujinin, that i could carry a grade with a light or heavy loaded blade pretty well. It did not have any form of counterweight on the rear, just ye olde standard Cat drawbar, but it sure did handle nicely, thank you.

Your blade arrangement does have a little more weight forward than the Cat system but I'd still reckon that a pair of larger idlers would solve a LOT of your issues. The counterweight on the back will help but you will still only have the same length of track on the ground, that which is under the four track rollers, whilst the track under the idlers and sprockets will not be carrying much if any load.

Another Cat tractor model where this was quite noticeable was the later D8H's. The early D8's, right up to the late H series, only had a 6-roller track frame. The last of the H series got a 7-roller track frame and they were a far better dozer for trimming. Not that you couldn't trim with the ealrier models but it sure did get easier with the longer track frame.

If you ask him VERY nicely, Mike Mc may post a couple of photos of the changes that he made to his Mighty D4 when he extended the track frames and made it a 5-roller undercarriage.

The equaliser spring is not going to do much to change the way your dozer handles when dozing 'cos it doesn't carry any of the blade weight. All it does is hold the engine up and, IF the retainer spring is intact and doing its job. stop the engine from winding itself up over the final drives and doing a back-flip. How-wevver, many D2's did have a rather droopy-nosed appearance and the extra leaf in the equaliser spring would likely improve that a bit.

Just my 0.02.

Kelly has it right about the angle of the blade. Leaning back is more for floating and tipping the blade forward, especially in hard ground, makes it dig in better. Small dozers are harder to run than big ones. Big ones you have more track on the ground to make it more stable. catskinner

"catskinner" wrote:

Kelly has it right about the angle of the blade. Leaning back is more for floating and tipping the blade forward, especially in hard ground, makes it dig in better. Small dozers are harder to run than big ones. Big ones you have more track on the ground to make it more stable. catskinner

I don't want to drag this thread out, I have to disagree with your comment on the angle (or tilt) of the blade. In my years catskinning it is actually easier to dig hard ground when peeling it with the blade tilted back ( like a wood plane ). Tilting forward as you suggest stands the cutting edge up sqare or sqarer to the ground and you can't achieve any penetration.
Just my opinion.
On the subject of small cats verses larger dozers on the ease of carrying a grade, and the pictures show Kens machine working in some rougher terrain, I suspect a contributing factor to be the track frame mounted dozer lift system. That handles quite a bit different than the dozer lift being on the nose which in turn is independent of what you are walking over with the tracks. That isn't probably the best explanation but hopefully you fellas get my drift. I do know that there is no comparison between large and small dozers as far as ease of finishing, and that if you are working on finishing, it doesn't really matter then how the dozer is mounted. But watch a D6 or D7 with a raized dozer coming across a plowed field and then watch a D2 or D4 come across that same plowed field with the dozers raised and you would swear the operators on the smaller cats were jerking the hydraulic control like they were practicing for the chance at a bigger cat with a johnson bar. Have a good day , Garry

Hey Gang,

Rolling a dozer blade forward and rolling a moldboard of a motor grader are similar. To move a greater volume of material, as long as the attachment can cut the material, roll it back. Once the material is very hard and the dozer is riding up and over the material, if you roll it forward, it will cut deeper with it's sharpness of a more agressive angle of attack. On a "Blade" (motorgrader), while doing land leveling and moving a full windrow, roll it back. When cutting pads or blue topping finish road grade, when it's compacted very, very hard, it won't cut when rolled back. If you roll the moldboard way over forward, it will shave and cut the rock. It will get so sharp when rolled all the way forward, it is possible to shave and even cut aspalt concrete pavement. It won't cut deep, but will shave it. Rolling a cutting edge to it's sharpest angle on very hard material will wear it down fast, so save the edge for the times that you need it. As long as the attachment will cut the material that you are working in, keep it rolled back for maximum production. The fact is that when you need to cut the hard stuff, roll it forward. It moves less material rolled forward, but will cut the hardness better.-glen

Hi, Snuffy.
On the principle that 50,000,000 Frenchmen can't be wrong (?????????????????) and in view of the fact that you seem to be outnumbered, not to mention my own experience, I am going to say that I agree with Kelly and 7UPuller. Tipping the blade FORWARD, be it on a dozer or a grader, or even an excavator, will give you a better cutting ability.

Re the blade lift mechanism being out on the tracks on the D2's and D4's, it was designed that way because the smaller tractors did not have a main frame with rails to support the engine like the bigger tractors. The entire front end of these smaller tractors, including the radiator and the front of the hood, was supported only by the engine block resting on the equaliser spring and thus they could not carry a hard nose. Having the blade lift system out on the track frames also helped to stop loading up the equaliser spring and you probably had LESS 'give' with that arrangement when the blade load came on to the rams or was lifted off them than you did with the bigger tractors lifting from the hardnose due to elimination of equaliser spring flex.

If you take the time to look carefully INTO that blade lift system, you may just notice that track oscillation is not the factor that you seem to think it it might be. This is because as one track oscillates up, the other may remain on ground level or even go down with the engine always remaining right in the middle, halfway between the two track levels due to the equalising effect of the equaliser spring or bar. Similarly, the blade lift mechanism has an equalising effect between the two sides because the rams are interconnected on the same circuits, Up side to Up side and Down side to Down side. This allows oil to flow easily and quite quickly between the two rams which allows them to compensate for any up or down movement of either track with the blade remaining pretty much at the same level relative to the middle line of the tractor, much as it would if the lift was from a hard nose.

Sure, if the nose of the tractor lifts or falls, then the blade is going to follow that movement, whether it is caused by one track oscillating up or down or by both moving in the same direction or in opposite directions at different rates, just as it would if the lift was from a hard nose.

Yes, a D6 or D7 will ride smoother across a plowed field due to the longer track length and the bridging effect that that length provides. How-wevver, I still stand by my earlier statement that having larger front idlers on the smaller tractors will help considerably in maintaining fore and aft stability when carrying a dozer blade, as would longer track frames.

Just my 0.02. Capische?

Most of the time, when blade discussions start, it is usually prefaced by; "tilting the blade back for suction", then the other half starts with the "roll forward to cut".
Scraping hard material with a grader blade rolled forward makes sense, but other guy says "penetrate and carry" which makes sense too???

This whole tilt the blade forward or backward for a deeper cut has me confused. Maybe I should just stand the blade straight up and stick with that.

Ken, the blade poked up like a Redwood is the route to go, I would check out your spring bar firstly for wear on the ends, also for centre pin wear, they do suffer a great deal in these locations making blade activity interesting, the front idlers well I could tell you about the Co' I worked for that would have me swap around the idlers from high to low set or what ever the need was depending if the tractor is dozing with the blade or pulling a bin, with the idlers placed in the high set position the blade was about useless so the idlers do play a major part in the control of the blunt bit at the front, anyhow the fun you and your pal are having with the little banger it would be a shame to change a thing, the ratio of fuel burnt to fun and smiles must be good value.
blowing it on tctractors