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Pony Problems D4 5T

Pony Problems D4 5T

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auscuscus
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I cannot get this pony motor to run fast enough. It will not “Bark” as it once did. Only a low rev ‘woof woof’ . Certainly not fast enough to crank the main without stalling the pony.

I recently relined my pony fuel tank and replaced the fuel line. It gets a good clean flow of fuel. I had the carby re kitted and magneto rebuilt and tested. The governor seems to have stopped working, but manually pushing the governor to carby linkage in, makes the engine miss.

I can only start it with the choke pulled all the way out, and the throttle all the way in.

I pre set the zenith carby main and idle screw to 1 1/2 turns out from fully in. Opening these while it idles seems to do nothing at all.

I feel like I have run out of ideas………..
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Fri, Nov 5, 2010 10:41 PM
bernie
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I am working through adjustments on my D42T carb. I have a new kit in it complete with needle and seat. I also did the Red Cote treatment on the tank and found a new bowl assembly with a glass bowl for the tank....I replaced the rubber line with a metal one a couple years ago...

I don't have the adjustment quite right, but hopefully will get it tuned in this weekend.

Regarding your question about the choke-I think in the manual it states that the initial choke should be all the way out and settings in accordance with your particular machine, climate and elevation would be adjusted accordingly....can't recall exactly what it says, but to start a full choke does not seem out of the ordinary.
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Fri, Nov 5, 2010 11:44 PM
ccjersey
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The owners manual I have for a similar age D2 says initial setting 1 turn out on the idle speed and 1/2 turn out on the high speed.

I wonder if it misses when you open the throttle because it's rich or lean? What does the smoke and plugs look like?

Have you tried to screw the high speed needle in a little bit to lean the high speed mixture? When it starts to miss as you push the throttle open, is the exhaust black or clean?

I'm guessing you have the idle mixture about right, but remember, you are adjusting the air that goes along with the gas flow through a fixed orifice, so screw the idle screw in to richen the mixture and out to lean it.

Can you get it to idle without the choke mostly/fully on? If not, somehow you still do not have good flow through the idle circuit. The idle discharge jet edb put pictures of would be a good candidate if you haven't driven it into the carburetor throat to check. See this thread
http://www.acmoc.org/bb/showthread.php?10971-pony-won-t-idle-down&highlight=

Does your gasket between the float bowl and the carburetor body have the center "bulls eye" in place?
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Sat, Nov 6, 2010 2:13 AM
Mike Meyer
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Reply to ccjersey:
The owners manual I have for a similar age D2 says initial setting 1 turn out on the idle speed and 1/2 turn out on the high speed.

I wonder if it misses when you open the throttle because it's rich or lean? What does the smoke and plugs look like?

Have you tried to screw the high speed needle in a little bit to lean the high speed mixture? When it starts to miss as you push the throttle open, is the exhaust black or clean?

I'm guessing you have the idle mixture about right, but remember, you are adjusting the air that goes along with the gas flow through a fixed orifice, so screw the idle screw in to richen the mixture and out to lean it.

Can you get it to idle without the choke mostly/fully on? If not, somehow you still do not have good flow through the idle circuit. The idle discharge jet edb put pictures of would be a good candidate if you haven't driven it into the carburetor throat to check. See this thread
http://www.acmoc.org/bb/showthread.php?10971-pony-won-t-idle-down&highlight=

Does your gasket between the float bowl and the carburetor body have the center "bulls eye" in place?
Assuming of course the aircleaner is clean, because those little guys never get cleaned it seems, I'd start there at the air cleaner and check your inlet manifold too, then if I had really good fuel flowing to the carby, assume that there is crud in some of the carby passageways.

I find my RD4 pilot motor somehow collects water in the carby fuel bowl making it really hard to start and I'm starting to suspect the pot metal used to build those units is hydoscopic and draws moisture from the atmosphere.

Anyway, as Bernie and CCJersey will tell you, those little carbies have some narrow passageways that can only be cleaned by removing the solder plugs with a drill, it's not hard to do, and I used a .177 air rifle slug to block them up once the cleaning job was complete as they fit perfectly.

I've paid supposed experts to do work on my Cats expecting a job worth the $100 an hour they charged me, only to find the Apprentice earning $8.75 was given the job and you may find the carby shop never removed those plugs to clean it properly.

Someone here like "Billy" has the photo's of the plugs I'm talking about.
regards
Mike
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Sat, Nov 6, 2010 3:16 AM
deetwocat
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Reply to Mike Meyer:
Assuming of course the aircleaner is clean, because those little guys never get cleaned it seems, I'd start there at the air cleaner and check your inlet manifold too, then if I had really good fuel flowing to the carby, assume that there is crud in some of the carby passageways.

I find my RD4 pilot motor somehow collects water in the carby fuel bowl making it really hard to start and I'm starting to suspect the pot metal used to build those units is hydoscopic and draws moisture from the atmosphere.

Anyway, as Bernie and CCJersey will tell you, those little carbies have some narrow passageways that can only be cleaned by removing the solder plugs with a drill, it's not hard to do, and I used a .177 air rifle slug to block them up once the cleaning job was complete as they fit perfectly.

I've paid supposed experts to do work on my Cats expecting a job worth the $100 an hour they charged me, only to find the Apprentice earning $8.75 was given the job and you may find the carby shop never removed those plugs to clean it properly.

Someone here like "Billy" has the photo's of the plugs I'm talking about.
regards
Mike
just a thought check the intake and the gaskets when it is running open a propane torch to give the intake a little propane if there is a leak the engine should run better .
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Sat, Nov 6, 2010 9:30 AM
Ray54
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Reply to deetwocat:
just a thought check the intake and the gaskets when it is running open a propane torch to give the intake a little propane if there is a leak the engine should run better .
I was thinking like CC that the needle was open a little to far,but keep try different settings.But you also say the governor is not working,if the arm is stiff and not moving freely they will not run very well if at all.Had this happen to pony that sat for several months.A little spray lube were the arm comes out of the governor and work it by hand a few times and away it went again.Ray
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Sat, Nov 6, 2010 10:26 AM
auscuscus
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Reply to Ray54:
I was thinking like CC that the needle was open a little to far,but keep try different settings.But you also say the governor is not working,if the arm is stiff and not moving freely they will not run very well if at all.Had this happen to pony that sat for several months.A little spray lube were the arm comes out of the governor and work it by hand a few times and away it went again.Ray
Thanks Guys. I feel beaten so I feel very supported with the advice.

I did remove the air filter to check it was not that a lack of air. I understand using propane via that intake, but does deetwocat mean spraying to check leaks about the carby , or leaks in the air inlet gaskets could cause issues ? The Governor moves freely, but not by itself, or is not yet called into action as it does not get enough fuel ?

The exhaust was minimal and color less. The plugs are black but not covered greatly. I cleaned these in fuel and burnt it off. Dipped them in fuel again and still no bark.

I relined the pony tank with POR motorbike tank kit which seemed a good product / system. Certainly cleaned lots of rust out before and worried my jets are full or rusty crud. I did use a fuel filter system which restricted flow and have done away with now the tank is all fancy.

I will drill this lead out ( bottom left of bowl ) in the pic and clean that jet line. What is the screw in the middle of this pic – goes into the float chamber. ?
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Sat, Nov 6, 2010 11:02 PM
ccjersey
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I think the one with the grease fitting screwed into it as a plug is the bowl overflow that is on some of the older versions of that carburetor. As far as I know, it should not go into anything on the inside other than directly into the float bowl.

The one on the lower left is the common problem area since it feeds the high speed metering well which you can remove by taking out the hex plug on the other corner of the bowl.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Sun, Nov 7, 2010 2:06 AM
Catnic
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[quote="auscuscus"]I pre set the zenith carby main and idle screw to 1 1/2 turns out from fully in. Opening these while it idles seems to do nothing at all.

I feel like I have run out of ideas………..[/quote]

The main jet adjustment as shown on the fourth photo works through a bellcrank thingy inside, so when turning out you are actually decreasing the amount of fuel, and vice versa, as I remember from those times ago.
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Sun, Nov 7, 2010 12:07 PM
ccjersey
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The newer D2/D4 pony carburetors that have the high speed mixture screw in from the side have the little belcrank inside so they work backwards.

The ones with the screw in from the top work normally, in to lean, out to richen.

The idle mix screws on all of them work "backwards" from your standard small engine carburetor, out to lean, in to richen.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Sun, Nov 7, 2010 7:55 PM
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