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pony head studs

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Frank Fox
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O.M.
help needed, I found a replacement block for the cracked block on my RD-6. I cleaned up the new block and cleaned the head stud holes with a 3/8" NC thread tap, Found some (set 11 each) of NOS head studs, Thought I would clean the threads on the studs. Got out my thread chaser in 3/8" NC and started to clean the studs. The chaser is real tight on the studs and gets hot and sequels when I get more than a nuts worth of cleaning. Am afraid I will brake the chaser nut so backed it off. The studs threads look good, but will only go in the block about one or two turns by hand. Could most likely get them in with some thread lube and stud driver? The block takes other 3/8" bolts fine, can screw them in all the way by hand. My question is did CAT make studs in oversize?
Frank:doh:
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Fri, Apr 6, 2012 11:19 AM
mog5858
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when your cleaing up your studs use some lube anything really wd40 or light oil. i use rapid-tap but that is what it made for and i thinking what your real problum is you die is not high speed steel, just carbon steel. the head studs might have a better class of fit like a class A wich will make them tight too.
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Fri, Apr 6, 2012 9:56 PM
ronm
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Reply to mog5858:
when your cleaing up your studs use some lube anything really wd40 or light oil. i use rapid-tap but that is what it made for and i thinking what your real problum is you die is not high speed steel, just carbon steel. the head studs might have a better class of fit like a class A wich will make them tight too.
Most studs have oversize threads on one end, the end that goes into the block, so that the nut will come off rather than the stud unscrewing from the block. An NOS Cat stud is probably too hard for your thread chaser.
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Fri, Apr 6, 2012 11:27 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to ronm:
Most studs have oversize threads on one end, the end that goes into the block, so that the nut will come off rather than the stud unscrewing from the block. An NOS Cat stud is probably too hard for your thread chaser.
All of the above, studs may be oversize on block mounted end. Could also be taper-lock version, and also different class of fit. If they are Cat studs they will be Grade 8.

Don't go there if they are way to tight and stress the block. Can always use loc-tite to hold them in....oversize taps are available but I'd hate to give up the meat.

Your thread chaser is just that....meant to just clean up buggered threads, primarily on cap screws. If you need to fit the studs you will have to do it with the old type Greenfield "Little Giant" adjustable two piece dies and die head.

It's the little stuff that drives ya nuts!!!!!!!
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Sat, Apr 7, 2012 12:24 AM
STEPHEN
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Reply to Old Magnet:
All of the above, studs may be oversize on block mounted end. Could also be taper-lock version, and also different class of fit. If they are Cat studs they will be Grade 8.

Don't go there if they are way to tight and stress the block. Can always use loc-tite to hold them in....oversize taps are available but I'd hate to give up the meat.

Your thread chaser is just that....meant to just clean up buggered threads, primarily on cap screws. If you need to fit the studs you will have to do it with the old type Greenfield "Little Giant" adjustable two piece dies and die head.

It's the little stuff that drives ya nuts!!!!!!!
Maybe the size problem is the reason they have never been used? Could you extract and use the old studs?
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Sat, Apr 7, 2012 1:48 AM
Frank Fox
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Reply to STEPHEN:
Maybe the size problem is the reason they have never been used? Could you extract and use the old studs?
Thanks for the suggestions. I thought of removing the old studs but cat studs are hard to remove and I found that Florin parts has some new ones.
Thought I would make life a little easier and not take a chance of removing the old stud and damaging one (thinking I may repair the cracked block one day and reuse it) The new studs are most likely harder then the thread chaser then I am using. I thought of heating the block some and cooling/freezing the studs may help. I remember when I worked for "Red Power" I.H. We changed a swing shaft in a TD-24, froze shaft in gas and dry ice and heated the main case with several rose buds, worked slick. I think I will try one with a stud driver and thread lube. Not sure when I will decide to do it but will post the out come on this forum
Frank:confused2:
OM, I have a greenfield die but didn't want to "CUT the nice rolled threads and yes you are correct, it's the little things that drive one nuts
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Sat, Apr 7, 2012 12:15 PM
Mike Meyer
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Reply to Frank Fox:
Thanks for the suggestions. I thought of removing the old studs but cat studs are hard to remove and I found that Florin parts has some new ones.
Thought I would make life a little easier and not take a chance of removing the old stud and damaging one (thinking I may repair the cracked block one day and reuse it) The new studs are most likely harder then the thread chaser then I am using. I thought of heating the block some and cooling/freezing the studs may help. I remember when I worked for "Red Power" I.H. We changed a swing shaft in a TD-24, froze shaft in gas and dry ice and heated the main case with several rose buds, worked slick. I think I will try one with a stud driver and thread lube. Not sure when I will decide to do it but will post the out come on this forum
Frank:confused2:
OM, I have a greenfield die but didn't want to "CUT the nice rolled threads and yes you are correct, it's the little things that drive one nuts
Is that crack in your pony block in the water jacket that runs behind the valve springs? My RD6 pilot motor has a crack there and I got all creative a year ago and made a nice stainless steel patch to cover the area where the crack was, right between the 2 cylinders, and scrubbed it all clean before glueing the triangular shaped patch in place with plenty of JB Weld. I thought I was pretty darn clever Frank, until the next time I ran the pilot motor and where I put the patch didn't leak, but just to the right of it did once the pilot motor cooled down, not a lot, but a drip every minute or so soon makes a mess of the pilot motor oil, so I got busy and put more JB Weld in the area that I know saw a drip, only for it to appear again further to the right,behind a valve spring.

It really has me annoyed, because the JB Weld is doing a good job, but it is almost impossible to work in behind those valve springs now, and the crack has me intruiged as to why it is seeming to move to the right along the water jacket to the #2 cylinder water jacket area the few times I run the pilot motor, because we don't get freezing conditions here.
regards
mike
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Sat, Apr 7, 2012 5:52 PM
neil
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Reply to Mike Meyer:
Is that crack in your pony block in the water jacket that runs behind the valve springs? My RD6 pilot motor has a crack there and I got all creative a year ago and made a nice stainless steel patch to cover the area where the crack was, right between the 2 cylinders, and scrubbed it all clean before glueing the triangular shaped patch in place with plenty of JB Weld. I thought I was pretty darn clever Frank, until the next time I ran the pilot motor and where I put the patch didn't leak, but just to the right of it did once the pilot motor cooled down, not a lot, but a drip every minute or so soon makes a mess of the pilot motor oil, so I got busy and put more JB Weld in the area that I know saw a drip, only for it to appear again further to the right,behind a valve spring.

It really has me annoyed, because the JB Weld is doing a good job, but it is almost impossible to work in behind those valve springs now, and the crack has me intruiged as to why it is seeming to move to the right along the water jacket to the #2 cylinder water jacket area the few times I run the pilot motor, because we don't get freezing conditions here.
regards
mike
Mike, that crack will continue to move unless you terminate it with a drill hole. You don't need it to actually freeze; you just need thermal cycling such as you get when you run it / stop it. It's still changing temp by a couple of hundred degrees and that's enough for the crack to move.
Cheers,
Neil.
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Sat, Apr 7, 2012 7:20 PM
Frank Fox
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Reply to neil:
Mike, that crack will continue to move unless you terminate it with a drill hole. You don't need it to actually freeze; you just need thermal cycling such as you get when you run it / stop it. It's still changing temp by a couple of hundred degrees and that's enough for the crack to move.
Cheers,
Neil.
Mike M
The crack is on the front rear corner of the block and through the cylinder wall to the crank case, so it leaked both inside and outside. We welded the crack on the outside and stopped that leak but it still leaks into the crankcase. I think if I were to "sleeve" the cylinder it would take care of the inside leak. Thought a replacement block would be the way to go as I had one. Good thing I dont depend on this machine to pay the bills, just a toy.
Thanks for your input. I think I saw your post on the leak behind the valves, showed the water dripping?
Frank:usa2:
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Sat, Apr 7, 2012 10:56 PM
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