ACMOC
Login
ACMOC

Pony #1

Showing 1 to 9 of 9 results
tomseabee
Topic Author
Offline
Member
Send a private message to tomseabee
Posts: 207
Thank you received: 0
I feel like a idiot asking for the location of the #1 cylinder on my D311 pony. I pulled the carb for a rebuild and had to pull the mag to get at the inside base flange nut. Got everything back together and went to the book for timing. All pretty straight forward I thought. They identified #1 cylinder as being on the "left side". I assumed it would be the left side as you are facing the front of the main engine.

When I timed on that cylinder, I get it to start pretty easy but it's misfiring through the exhaust like it's retarded timing. Not every cycle but a lot of them on a regular basis. I run the rpm up a bit and I get flame out the exhaust when it misses. It seems that if it was timed late, like being off a tooth on the timing gear, that the miss would be on every cycle and there would be little or no power. It's got enough power to spin the main engine. http://www.acmoc.org/bb/images/icons/confused.gif

What am I missing?๐Ÿ˜•http://www.acmoc.org/bb/images/icons/embarassed.gif
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Fri, Jan 29, 2016 10:25 AM
Old Magnet
Offline
Send a private message to Old Magnet
Posts: 16,694
Thank you received: 16
#1 is LH side as viewed from the seat.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Fri, Jan 29, 2016 10:31 AM
tomseabee
Topic Author
Offline
Member
Send a private message to tomseabee
Posts: 207
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Old Magnet:
#1 is LH side as viewed from the seat.
Thanks OM. I guess it should be obvious but when using a engine for a power unit or a genset, the term "left" is kind of ambiguous.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Fri, Jan 29, 2016 12:52 PM
Old Magnet
Offline
Send a private message to Old Magnet
Posts: 16,694
Thank you received: 16
Reply to tomseabee:
Thanks OM. I guess it should be obvious but when using a engine for a power unit or a genset, the term "left" is kind of ambiguous.
When viewing equipment, pumps, motors, gear boxes, etc rotation is always viewed from the drive end. (Industry Standard)
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Fri, Jan 29, 2016 1:04 PM
edb
Offline
Member
Send a private message to edb
Posts: 4,027
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Old Magnet:
When viewing equipment, pumps, motors, gear boxes, etc rotation is always viewed from the drive end. (Industry Standard)
Hi Tom,
A faulty spark plug can cause the spark to cross over inside the mag cap or across the rotor button if it/they are covered in carbon dust and/or cracked. The cracks/burn lines, fill with carbonised cap/rotor material that becomes conductive to the spark, if you find this, for the cap carefully gouge out the carbonised material and spray it with electrical lacquer insulating spray.
About all you can do with the rotor is face it up on sand paper to remove the tracking lines--finish off with fine sand paper to leave a smooth surface for the carbon brushes to rub on.

Another thing is to check you have metal core wires--carbon core resistance wires and/or resistance spark plugs and magnetos do not mix well as the mags cannot fire thru the resistance.
As above check your cap and rotor for carbon tracking and/or cracks that can cause the spark to take the easiest path to the other cylinder.
Timing is affected by incorrect points gap.
Eisemann mags for D2/D4 ponies run 0.020" Other brand mags run around 0.014-0.018". Mike Meyer and I found that running an Eisemann on a D2/D4 pony at 0.014" will require the mag to be set one tooth out for correct points opening versus the flywheel timing mark.

Carbs with the later horizontal main jet adjusting screw can have the 90# (scan 1 below) lever under the little cover that the adjuster screw is in can be bent to more than 90#(scan 2 below). When this happens you cannot get the mixture rich enough for the pony to run at less than about half choke.
The lever is flimsy and easily bent if you use more than your fingers to screw the screw IN to reach the jet adjust start point for initial adjustment--then screw out 1 turn-- and then adjust for best high speed power running-the adjuster screw works in reverse due to the 90# lever, so turn IN for Richer--OUT for Leaner.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Attachment
Attachment
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Fri, Jan 29, 2016 4:27 PM
tomseabee
Topic Author
Offline
Member
Send a private message to tomseabee
Posts: 207
Thank you received: 0
Reply to edb:
Hi Tom,
A faulty spark plug can cause the spark to cross over inside the mag cap or across the rotor button if it/they are covered in carbon dust and/or cracked. The cracks/burn lines, fill with carbonised cap/rotor material that becomes conductive to the spark, if you find this, for the cap carefully gouge out the carbonised material and spray it with electrical lacquer insulating spray.
About all you can do with the rotor is face it up on sand paper to remove the tracking lines--finish off with fine sand paper to leave a smooth surface for the carbon brushes to rub on.

Another thing is to check you have metal core wires--carbon core resistance wires and/or resistance spark plugs and magnetos do not mix well as the mags cannot fire thru the resistance.
As above check your cap and rotor for carbon tracking and/or cracks that can cause the spark to take the easiest path to the other cylinder.
Timing is affected by incorrect points gap.
Eisemann mags for D2/D4 ponies run 0.020" Other brand mags run around 0.014-0.018". Mike Meyer and I found that running an Eisemann on a D2/D4 pony at 0.014" will require the mag to be set one tooth out for correct points opening versus the flywheel timing mark.

Carbs with the later horizontal main jet adjusting screw can have the 90# (scan 1 below) lever under the little cover that the adjuster screw is in can be bent to more than 90#(scan 2 below). When this happens you cannot get the mixture rich enough for the pony to run at less than about half choke.
The lever is flimsy and easily bent if you use more than your fingers to screw the screw IN to reach the jet adjust start point for initial adjustment--then screw out 1 turn-- and then adjust for best high speed power running-the adjuster screw works in reverse due to the 90# lever, so turn IN for Richer--OUT for Leaner.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Attachment
Attachment
Hi Eddie,
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm guessing the cap is ok as it was running without the missing through the exhaust problem a week ago. Both the cap and the rotor looks new on the inside but they aren't new and could have issues. I'll check the cap outside surface again.

I replaced the original plug wires a few years ago with new multi-strand Belden wire. I think it should be ok as the genset is inside my shop and not exposed to the weather.

I'll definitely look again at the points because the gap "looked about right" at about .020" but I didn't measure it. I cleaned up the point contacts with crocus cloth but didn't bother to check the points because the spark seemed to be in time and working before I pulled it to remove the carb.

Another thing to check is the carb main jet adjusting lever being >90 degrees. I'm guessing that it's ok but I don't know that for sure. The main reason I pulled the carb down for a cleanout was just what you described as having to run the choke past midpoint to get it rich enough to run. I think that issue has been corrected but it's easy enough to check the shape of the lever.

I really appreciate the check points and I'll check those as soon as I get the mag set on the "right #1". I was using the "other #1" and had no idea it would run if it was set to the wrong cylinder. Since this is a 2 cylinder engine firing on the MAG position for both cylinders, I guess it makes sense. The only difference might be the fixed timing advance??

Thanks again,
Embarrassed Tom
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Fri, Jan 29, 2016 9:58 PM
ccjersey
Offline
Send a private message to ccjersey
Posts: 4,422
Thank you received: 0
Wasted spark ignition systems have become so common, it is hard to purge that from my troubleshooting process, but even though the horizontal opposed pony is an even fire design, it should NOT run if timed to the wrong cylinder as #1.

However fixing that mistake is as easy as swapping the wires in the mag cap.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time๐Ÿ˜„
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Fri, Jan 29, 2016 10:16 PM
tomseabee
Topic Author
Offline
Member
Send a private message to tomseabee
Posts: 207
Thank you received: 0
Reply to ccjersey:
Wasted spark ignition systems have become so common, it is hard to purge that from my troubleshooting process, but even though the horizontal opposed pony is an even fire design, it should NOT run if timed to the wrong cylinder as #1.

However fixing that mistake is as easy as swapping the wires in the mag cap.
Got the pony cooking on the front burner. Man, a little time in some carb cleaner and some new gaskets does wonders for the carb.

The main jet at the bottom of the float bowl appeared to be at least partially stopped up. It seems like poor design to put any +- .030" orifice which has a good chance of being stopped up with small debris that would collect in the bottom of the float bowl.

Thanks,
Tom
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sun, Jan 31, 2016 1:17 AM
edb
Offline
Member
Send a private message to edb
Posts: 4,027
Thank you received: 0
Reply to tomseabee:
Got the pony cooking on the front burner. Man, a little time in some carb cleaner and some new gaskets does wonders for the carb.

The main jet at the bottom of the float bowl appeared to be at least partially stopped up. It seems like poor design to put any +- .030" orifice which has a good chance of being stopped up with small debris that would collect in the bottom of the float bowl.

Thanks,
Tom
Hi Tom,
great to hear you got that pesky carby sorted. It does not take much to cause a problem with them.
As you suggest they are good with a new clean system, BUT, after many years of getting topped up with dirty funnels and cans -- not to mention condensation -- it all goes south way down the track as rust and silt take their toll.

If your carb has the horizontal Main jet adjuster screw I found on one of Mike's carbs that the little cover did not cover a miss-drilled hole in the top cover. Over the years this allowed dirt and water into the bowl. The bowl was badly corroded and passages were blocked with corrosion material--really took some cleaning.
I filled the hole with some goo and it should be good for the future.

I posted a Thread "Pony Engine Quirks" -or something like that, about some idiosyncrasies of pony engines and their accessories some time back.

As the Search function does not seem to work here down under, up top there you may be able to find the thread and add to it with your experiences.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sun, Jan 31, 2016 7:59 AM
tomseabee
Topic Author
Offline
Member
Send a private message to tomseabee
Posts: 207
Thank you received: 0
Reply to edb:
Hi Tom,
great to hear you got that pesky carby sorted. It does not take much to cause a problem with them.
As you suggest they are good with a new clean system, BUT, after many years of getting topped up with dirty funnels and cans -- not to mention condensation -- it all goes south way down the track as rust and silt take their toll.

If your carb has the horizontal Main jet adjuster screw I found on one of Mike's carbs that the little cover did not cover a miss-drilled hole in the top cover. Over the years this allowed dirt and water into the bowl. The bowl was badly corroded and passages were blocked with corrosion material--really took some cleaning.
I filled the hole with some goo and it should be good for the future.

I posted a Thread "Pony Engine Quirks" -or something like that, about some idiosyncrasies of pony engines and their accessories some time back.

As the Search function does not seem to work here down under, up top there you may be able to find the thread and add to it with your experiences.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Hi Eddie,
Goo sounds like just the ticket for sealing holes. It's bad enough with junk that comes in via the fuel line, but having "extra holes" is begging for trouble. Early on, I installed a inline fuel filter for quick insurance between the fuel tank valve/sediment bowl and the carb because I was lazy and didn't take the time to pull and clean the pony fuel tank. I've since done that and found the tank fairly clean but I was nervous about 50s vintage equipment having issues.

I'll sure look for "Pony Engine Quirks" and hope to find it.

Hope you are having a great weekend,
Tom
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sun, Jan 31, 2016 10:57 AM
Showing 1 to 9 of 9 results
YouTube Video Placeholder

Follow Us on Social Media

Our channel highlights machines from the earliest Holt and Best track-type tractors, equipment from the start of Caterpillar in 1925, up to units built in the mid-1960s.

Upcoming Events

Veerkamp Open House 2025

Chapter Fifteen

| Placerville, CA

Stradsett Park Vintage Rally

Chapter Two

| Stradsett, Nr Downham Market. Norfolk PE33 9HA UK

Chapter 2 The Link Club's AGM

Chapter Two

| Faulkner Farm, West Drove, Wisbech, Cambridgeshire, PE14 7DP, UK
View Calendar
ACMOC

Antique Caterpillar
Machinery Owners Club

1115 Madison St NE # 1117
Salem, OR 97301

[email protected]

Terms & Privacy
Website developed by AdCo

Testimonials

"I also joined a year ago. had been on here a couple of times as a non-member and found the info very helpful so I got a one year subscription (not very expensive at all) to try it out. I really like all the resources on here so I just got a three year. I think its a very small price for what you can get out of this site."
-Jason N

Join Today!