ACMOC
Login
ACMOC
Old D4 4400 engine puzzel

Old D4 4400 engine puzzel

Showing 1 to 10 of 12 results
1
Suomalainen
Topic Author
Offline
Send a private message to Suomalainen
Posts: 31
Thank you received: 0
Finally got new liners for the 4400 engine. Now everything is good internally but it still will not start. Had the injectors spraying nice mist while cranking with starting engine. pump lifter setting is correct now. Valves .15 cold should be .10 hot and there movement amount seems good and the camshaft did look good. Proper amount of white smoke comes from exhaust when given throttle. Fuel pressure is top of white while cranking. Compression feels excellent now and can hardly turn it by hand, has good rebound and hear no unusual leaks.
It did barely start with starting fluid and had to keep feeding starting fluid a long time to keep it running but it seemed to be restricted for air as I could put a plate over air intake and it did not make much difference, there was much white smoke like it was overloaded with fuel and lacking air. checked all air passageways and all is clear. Fuel pressure was top of green running.
The compression release does not release compression at all, nor does it on my RD4 but that runs excellent anyway. I understand the release is not adjustable but I tried taking the plate off to look but it felt like something could fall apart inside, or will it come off with the arms and keys removed? The release tries to lift the valves but does not have enough movement.
All I can suspect anymore is still the injectors even though they spray nice , but still it seems restricted for air.
The original engine that came with this tractor acted the same way but it was in very bad shape internally. Strange how this good one is acting the same way. This has me stumped can any one give any more ideas?
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Fri, Mar 28, 2008 9:49 AM
OldNuc
Offline
Send a private message to OldNuc
Posts: 162
Thank you received: 0
My crystal ball is a little cloudy but it sounds like the inlet valves are not opening based on the lack of intake suction. Possible cam timing, and/or compression release issue. I have a D4400 and it spins over by hand very easy with the compression release in the start position. In run it will stall the pony if not careful when engaging the clutch. I have attached a scan of the page from the engine manual detailing how to remove the compression release as it is not a straight forward procedure.
Attachment
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Fri, Mar 28, 2008 10:20 AM
Old Magnet
Offline
Send a private message to Old Magnet
Posts: 16,694
Thank you received: 16
Reply to OldNuc:
My crystal ball is a little cloudy but it sounds like the inlet valves are not opening based on the lack of intake suction. Possible cam timing, and/or compression release issue. I have a D4400 and it spins over by hand very easy with the compression release in the start position. In run it will stall the pony if not careful when engaging the clutch. I have attached a scan of the page from the engine manual detailing how to remove the compression release as it is not a straight forward procedure.
Attachment
Check your engine timing for TDC and flywheel marks. The D4400 flywheel can be mounted out of position unlike the later D315.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Fri, Mar 28, 2008 9:49 PM
SJ
Offline
Send a private message to SJ
Posts: 1,890
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Old Magnet:
Check your engine timing for TDC and flywheel marks. The D4400 flywheel can be mounted out of position unlike the later D315.
OM I,m pretty sure you still could get the D315 off too and it wasn,t till the D330 that the flywheel had an offset hole so you couldn,t get it on wrong.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Fri, Mar 28, 2008 11:37 PM
STEPHEN
Offline
Send a private message to STEPHEN
Posts: 2,461
Thank you received: 0
Reply to SJ:
OM I,m pretty sure you still could get the D315 off too and it wasn,t till the D330 that the flywheel had an offset hole so you couldn,t get it on wrong.
Valves are .15/.10 or is it .015/.010?
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Fri, Mar 28, 2008 11:46 PM
SJ
Offline
Send a private message to SJ
Posts: 1,890
Thank you received: 0
Reply to STEPHEN:
Valves are .15/.10 or is it .015/.010?
I have the Cat spec sheet and yes the valves are set .010" hot and at the dealer I (we) always set them .002" more when cold or would be .012" cold but it,s a good idea to check them if you want when the engine is warmed up.He just didn,t get his decimals written as should be as the "0" has to be in there after the period.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sat, Mar 29, 2008 12:10 AM
ccjersey
Offline
Send a private message to ccjersey
Posts: 4,422
Thank you received: 0
Reply to SJ:
I have the Cat spec sheet and yes the valves are set .010" hot and at the dealer I (we) always set them .002" more when cold or would be .012" cold but it,s a good idea to check them if you want when the engine is warmed up.He just didn,t get his decimals written as should be as the "0" has to be in there after the period.
Have you tried it without the air cleaner (just for grins)?

If the flywheel is one hole off, then you probably would have broken something in the injection pump when you turned it after incorrectly setting the lifters because of the flywheel problem, but if you don't have any luck without the air filter on it,...................

I would take off the valve cover, remove any convenient injector, remove the side cover on the injection pump and the flywheel timing pointer window cover.

Then put a LONG wire or somesuch down onto the top of the piston through the precombustion chamber and have someone roll the engine over while watching the wire for TDC/BDC, the valve rockers for valve movement and the injection pump lifter for pump timing.

When your piston gets to TDC, you should have either
1 exhaust closing and intake opening, that injection pump lifter NOT moving, and the flywheel mark for that cylinder pair coming up to the pointer.

OR
2 both valves closed,
your injection pump lifter should be rising
And the flywheel mark for that cylinder pair should be coming up.

How many helpers can you round up?😄
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sat, Mar 29, 2008 1:28 AM
Suomalainen
Topic Author
Offline
Send a private message to Suomalainen
Posts: 31
Thank you received: 0
Reply to SJ:
I have the Cat spec sheet and yes the valves are set .010" hot and at the dealer I (we) always set them .002" more when cold or would be .012" cold but it,s a good idea to check them if you want when the engine is warmed up.He just didn,t get his decimals written as should be as the "0" has to be in there after the period.
Old Magnet, you seem to have gotten right to it. When the TDC mark is coming up no. 1 exhaust is just closing. If I remember correct I can just turn the flywheel 180 degrees to get it right without taking the injectors out again to find no. 1 TDC. Am I correct? It is a bear to turn by the fan all alone with out the compression release working.
Also to the gentleman who sent me the pictures of the compression release. The picture will not enlarge enough to be able to be read how to dismantle it for inspection. As I remember it is not adjustable so perhaps it is best not to take it apart even, at least until the timing is corrected.
Yes I had the decimal wrong, valves are set at .015 cold to recheck and set at .010 after running.
Sure do thank you fellows
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sat, Mar 29, 2008 1:32 AM
pdmech08
Offline
Send a private message to pdmech08
Posts: 12
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Suomalainen:
Old Magnet, you seem to have gotten right to it. When the TDC mark is coming up no. 1 exhaust is just closing. If I remember correct I can just turn the flywheel 180 degrees to get it right without taking the injectors out again to find no. 1 TDC. Am I correct? It is a bear to turn by the fan all alone with out the compression release working.
Also to the gentleman who sent me the pictures of the compression release. The picture will not enlarge enough to be able to be read how to dismantle it for inspection. As I remember it is not adjustable so perhaps it is best not to take it apart even, at least until the timing is corrected.
Yes I had the decimal wrong, valves are set at .015 cold to recheck and set at .010 after running.
Sure do thank you fellows
If #1 exhaust is just closing the piston should be at TDC on the exhaust stroke. (providing the cam timing is correct) Therefore you should have to turn the engine a complete 360 degrees to arrive at TDC compression.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sat, Mar 29, 2008 2:31 AM
Suomalainen
Topic Author
Offline
Send a private message to Suomalainen
Posts: 31
Thank you received: 0
Reply to pdmech08:
If #1 exhaust is just closing the piston should be at TDC on the exhaust stroke. (providing the cam timing is correct) Therefore you should have to turn the engine a complete 360 degrees to arrive at TDC compression.
Well fellows, Old Magnet must have extraterrestrial knowledge about these things to have come right to it that the timing may be off. It sure is some blessing to have him with us. The old 4400 engine should be in time now. It seems the flywheel can be off in any of the holes and not just 180 degrees off.
Now I just need to know if there is anything that can be done about the compression release that does not relieve compression and does not work on any of the other two 4400 engines here. I understand it is not adjustable.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sat, Mar 29, 2008 5:32 AM
OldNuc
Offline
Send a private message to OldNuc
Posts: 162
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Suomalainen:
Well fellows, Old Magnet must have extraterrestrial knowledge about these things to have come right to it that the timing may be off. It sure is some blessing to have him with us. The old 4400 engine should be in time now. It seems the flywheel can be off in any of the holes and not just 180 degrees off.
Now I just need to know if there is anything that can be done about the compression release that does not relieve compression and does not work on any of the other two 4400 engines here. I understand it is not adjustable.
Most likely it is jammed in the relieve position and the valve has been adjusted to get closure. Looks like the operating cam can be installed upside down.

I can send you the full size scan and you can see all of the parts. The forum limits the size of the uploaded image to 293K which is barely readable...

It is not that straight forward of a removal process. You have to drive the locating pins into the engine far enough to rock it out from the top but without driving them all the way through as they will then be in the pan with the oil. The valve rocker has to be backed off and the push rod removed. Also the decompression linkage.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sat, Mar 29, 2008 6:09 AM
Showing 1 to 10 of 12 results
1
YouTube Video Placeholder

Follow Us on Social Media

Our channel highlights machines from the earliest Holt and Best track-type tractors, equipment from the start of Caterpillar in 1925, up to units built in the mid-1960s.

Upcoming Events

Veerkamp Open House 2025

Chapter Fifteen

| Placerville, CA

Stradsett Park Vintage Rally

Chapter Two

| Stradsett, Nr Downham Market. Norfolk PE33 9HA UK

Chapter 2 The Link Club's AGM

Chapter Two

| Faulkner Farm, West Drove, Wisbech, Cambridgeshire, PE14 7DP, UK
View Calendar
ACMOC

Antique Caterpillar
Machinery Owners Club

1115 Madison St NE # 1117
Salem, OR 97301

[email protected]

Terms & Privacy
Website developed by AdCo

Testimonials

"I became a member recently because the wealth of knowledge here is priceless." 
-Chris R

Join Today!