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D9 18a

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Grizz
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Hi guys I am new to this forum but I've heard that pretty much all the information about old Cats lives hear.
My son found a D9 18A near a piece of land in that we own in northwestern BC,
We have been looking for a dozer to build a road into the land.
I talked to the D9' s current owner and he said that it leaked cooling water into the engine oil. He had drained the antifreeze a while ago because it was looseing coolant but he couldn't tell where. when he filled the rad with water the last time he was going to use it he found water in the oil pan. From what I understand he never started it. He asked the Cat dealer who told him it was probbably liner O-rings. As far as I know he just drained the water and left it.
He has barred the motor over once or twice a year since.
I can buy the machine for scrap price. but we would have to get it running and walk it about 4 miles to our land.
What is the likley hood of this leak being water pump seals (packing I guess)
or oil cooler ,but in my experience oilcooler usually go the other way first
and last and scariest liner o- rings or a hole in the liner
I would appreciate any guidance you have
thanks
Grizz
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Wed, Jan 13, 2010 9:52 AM
Old Magnet
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Hello Grizz and welcome.
Seems like you've touched on most the candidate sources for leaks but you need to add pin holes in the pre-combustion chambers to your list. Also cracked castings.
Water pump is a gear drive with mechanical seal and doesn't appear to have a separating cavity and weep hole.

Maybe get an air pressure check on the cooling system and see if you can judge how major a leak it has. Open something up to see what the condition of the water side passages look like. I would suspect that the liner seals would be the prime candidate.
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Wed, Jan 13, 2010 11:03 AM
Grizz
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Hello Grizz and welcome.
Seems like you've touched on most the candidate sources for leaks but you need to add pin holes in the pre-combustion chambers to your list. Also cracked castings.
Water pump is a gear drive with mechanical seal and doesn't appear to have a separating cavity and weep hole.

Maybe get an air pressure check on the cooling system and see if you can judge how major a leak it has. Open something up to see what the condition of the water side passages look like. I would suspect that the liner seals would be the prime candidate.
I live 1000 miles from the D9 so we would have to be kind of prepared for a major job like changing liners.
How crazy would I be to fill the cooling system with engine oil if it is a liner leak??
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Thu, Jan 14, 2010 1:02 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to Grizz:
I live 1000 miles from the D9 so we would have to be kind of prepared for a major job like changing liners.
How crazy would I be to fill the cooling system with engine oil if it is a liner leak??
For how long and how far?
Probably wouldn't hurt to go that 4 miles and get it loaded for transport. Don't know how long it would take to overheat. Take some doing to get the cooling system cleaned up again. Plenty of old time tractors survived using diesel fuel as coolant.

Yes, that's a problem....these old Cat's don't break down where you want them to.
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Thu, Jan 14, 2010 2:03 AM
Grizz
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Reply to Old Magnet:
For how long and how far?
Probably wouldn't hurt to go that 4 miles and get it loaded for transport. Don't know how long it would take to overheat. Take some doing to get the cooling system cleaned up again. Plenty of old time tractors survived using diesel fuel as coolant.

Yes, that's a problem....these old Cat's don't break down where you want them to.
Thanks for the input ๐Ÿ˜Š I guess that would tell me what else is working or not on it . I don't suppose ther is any other temporary fix for liner seals. and what are the chances of pulling the liners with out wrecking them?
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Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:11 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to Grizz:
Thanks for the input ๐Ÿ˜Š I guess that would tell me what else is working or not on it . I don't suppose ther is any other temporary fix for liner seals. and what are the chances of pulling the liners with out wrecking them?
I'm sure someone will recommend loading it up with one of the radiator stop leak products.....but you sure don't want that crap in the lube system.

Your not going to hurt the liners, they are thick wall and hardened.
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Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:31 AM
Grizz
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Reply to Old Magnet:
I'm sure someone will recommend loading it up with one of the radiator stop leak products.....but you sure don't want that crap in the lube system.

Your not going to hurt the liners, they are thick wall and hardened.
bars leak in the oil passages .............arrrgh
where would I get the liner dimensions etc so I can spin up a tool on the lathe???
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Fri, Jan 15, 2010 1:38 AM
ccjersey
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Reply to Grizz:
bars leak in the oil passages .............arrrgh
where would I get the liner dimensions etc so I can spin up a tool on the lathe???
Interesting idea putting oil in the cooling system. What about making the move in cold weather, using very light oil, maybe 10 wt so it will flow through the radiator flues better. If it is a liner seal leaking, putting the oil in there might just seal it up when the top o-ring that's been exposed only to coolant gets a dose of petroleum to soften it up.๐Ÿ˜„

On the other hand, it's very likely that you could just fill it up with plain water and move it as far as you need to while monitoring the condition of the oil. A leak that fills the oil pan with coolant when it's not running might not make much of a problem during a short run.

A water pump seal might also leak a lot slower while running, just depending on what is the problem. I have had belt drive water pumps fail that I am confident were stuck and then damaged when the engine was first turned after a prolonged period (months) of sitting. With the seal element cracked like those were, you wouldn't get much run time before the oil turned to pudding.

If you pressure test the cooling system with the inspection covers off the side of the engine, you could possibly get an idea of what was leaking and how fast.

The engine is a D353 with a 6.25" bore x 8" stroke if you need to get the tooling ahead of time.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time๐Ÿ˜„
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Fri, Jan 15, 2010 3:07 AM
Grizz
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Reply to ccjersey:
Interesting idea putting oil in the cooling system. What about making the move in cold weather, using very light oil, maybe 10 wt so it will flow through the radiator flues better. If it is a liner seal leaking, putting the oil in there might just seal it up when the top o-ring that's been exposed only to coolant gets a dose of petroleum to soften it up.๐Ÿ˜„

On the other hand, it's very likely that you could just fill it up with plain water and move it as far as you need to while monitoring the condition of the oil. A leak that fills the oil pan with coolant when it's not running might not make much of a problem during a short run.

A water pump seal might also leak a lot slower while running, just depending on what is the problem. I have had belt drive water pumps fail that I am confident were stuck and then damaged when the engine was first turned after a prolonged period (months) of sitting. With the seal element cracked like those were, you wouldn't get much run time before the oil turned to pudding.

If you pressure test the cooling system with the inspection covers off the side of the engine, you could possibly get an idea of what was leaking and how fast.

The engine is a D353 with a 6.25" bore x 8" stroke if you need to get the tooling ahead of time.
I wonder if oil would help the seals assuming they are leaking. If its the water pump seal I think we would fix it where it sits
thanks again for the wisdom guys๐Ÿ˜Š
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Fri, Jan 15, 2010 5:16 AM
NIK O.
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Reply to Grizz:
I live 1000 miles from the D9 so we would have to be kind of prepared for a major job like changing liners.
How crazy would I be to fill the cooling system with engine oil if it is a liner leak??
[quote="Grizz"]I live 1000 miles from the D9 so we would have to be kind of prepared for a major job like changing liners.
How crazy would I be to fill the cooling system with engine oil if it is a liner leak??[/quote]
BOUGHT DREAM, 38 FORD P/U, FLATHEAD 85, HAD FROZE & BUSTED. FILLED W/RERUN MOTOR OIL, STARTED 300 MILES HOME. EVEN W/ WINDSHIELD CRANKED OUT, GOT CHOKED & BLINDED IN 20 MILES, BUT RAN FINE!BE BLESSED, D9 19A
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Fri, Jan 15, 2010 6:16 AM
Grizz
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Reply to NIK O.:
[quote="Grizz"]I live 1000 miles from the D9 so we would have to be kind of prepared for a major job like changing liners.
How crazy would I be to fill the cooling system with engine oil if it is a liner leak??[/quote]
BOUGHT DREAM, 38 FORD P/U, FLATHEAD 85, HAD FROZE & BUSTED. FILLED W/RERUN MOTOR OIL, STARTED 300 MILES HOME. EVEN W/ WINDSHIELD CRANKED OUT, GOT CHOKED & BLINDED IN 20 MILES, BUT RAN FINE!BE BLESSED, D9 19A
So do you think it would cool alright if we don't load it too hard??
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Fri, Jan 15, 2010 7:39 AM
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