ACMOC
Login
ACMOC
D7 17A direct start question

D7 17A direct start question

Showing 1 to 6 of 6 results
Rennix
Topic Author
Offline
Send a private message to Rennix
Posts: 108
Thank you received: 0
Ok,
We have found several options on this, and now I have a few questions.
First, 50MT starters are available in several different voltages. Why does everyone on here say use a 24 volt? A 12 volt seems to be an easier system to deal with.

Second, What size batteries should I use? I know most dozers use a 8D, but do we need to? It seems big truck batteries would work to me, and would be easier to make boxes for.

Third, How many batteries is it gonna take? I know if we go 24 volts, it will obviously take two, but if we go 12 volts will 1, 1000amp battery work? Or would 1 8D battery do the trick? (they are only 1400amps)

I'm not really trying to cheap out, I just want to do the neatest and simplest way. I want it done to be realiable, but I don't want a bunch of battery boxes all over the thing. Or a big pain in the butt electrical system.

Thanks,
Todd
1953 D4 6U8588 Cat hyd. blade, Hyster D4 winch
1959 955 Traxcavator 12A6595
1959 Rogers/Phelan 25 ton lowboy
1960 D7 17A14922
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sun, Dec 11, 2011 9:12 PM
ol Grump
Offline
Send a private message to ol Grump
Posts: 1,077
Thank you received: 0
In the "for what it's worth" column, I used an MT 50 12 volt starter on my 12E grader as it was set up for 12 volts when I replaced the buzz bomb pony. Two batteries hooked up in parallel have worked fine so far. I release compression first, crank it over for 8-10 seconds, and still while cranking hit the compression lever, give the foot feed a tap and a quick sniff of ether. Rumbles to life immediately unless the temps are under 25F or so. If it runs rough, another quick sniff and it straightens right out.

The ether injection setup is something I made up out of some small plastic oil line pressed over those little red plastic tubes that come on the brake cleaner spray cans. .fits the ether can on one end and the other goes into the intake between the air cleaner and manifold and the can is secured to the instrument panel.

I used the biggest batteries that would fit between the back of the cab and bulkhead in front of the engine and as I recall, the cables I made up were 2/0 with the terminals squeezed on. I've been putting the alternator conversion off for the winter. .too durned cold to work w/o gloves for this old man😆
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sun, Dec 11, 2011 9:55 PM
Rennix
Topic Author
Offline
Send a private message to Rennix
Posts: 108
Thank you received: 0
Reply to ol Grump:
In the "for what it's worth" column, I used an MT 50 12 volt starter on my 12E grader as it was set up for 12 volts when I replaced the buzz bomb pony. Two batteries hooked up in parallel have worked fine so far. I release compression first, crank it over for 8-10 seconds, and still while cranking hit the compression lever, give the foot feed a tap and a quick sniff of ether. Rumbles to life immediately unless the temps are under 25F or so. If it runs rough, another quick sniff and it straightens right out.

The ether injection setup is something I made up out of some small plastic oil line pressed over those little red plastic tubes that come on the brake cleaner spray cans. .fits the ether can on one end and the other goes into the intake between the air cleaner and manifold and the can is secured to the instrument panel.

I used the biggest batteries that would fit between the back of the cab and bulkhead in front of the engine and as I recall, the cables I made up were 2/0 with the terminals squeezed on. I've been putting the alternator conversion off for the winter. .too durned cold to work w/o gloves for this old man😆
Thanks for the reply Ol grump. I was thinking a 12 volt system would work. We even got to looking today and a 50 mt is what is on my big truck. I think we are gonna go ahead with the 8D battery. If thats not enough we'll and another in parallel.
It's getting pretty cold here in NC too. Seem to spend more time around the woodstove in the shop than getting anything done.
1953 D4 6U8588 Cat hyd. blade, Hyster D4 winch
1959 955 Traxcavator 12A6595
1959 Rogers/Phelan 25 ton lowboy
1960 D7 17A14922
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Mon, Dec 12, 2011 3:15 AM
Old Magnet
Offline
Send a private message to Old Magnet
Posts: 16,694
Thank you received: 16
Reply to Rennix:
Thanks for the reply Ol grump. I was thinking a 12 volt system would work. We even got to looking today and a 50 mt is what is on my big truck. I think we are gonna go ahead with the 8D battery. If thats not enough we'll and another in parallel.
It's getting pretty cold here in NC too. Seem to spend more time around the woodstove in the shop than getting anything done.
Running the lower voltage raises the amperage through switches, wires and contacts. You will need to run 24v if you expect to install glow plugs.
I thought Cat had a pretty good design and reason for the 24v system.

Would agree a pair of 8D's is overkill for the 17A, same set up used to start D9's. A pair of 4D's would probably be about right.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Mon, Dec 12, 2011 4:02 AM
bjohnson
Offline
Send a private message to bjohnson
Posts: 28
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Old Magnet:
Running the lower voltage raises the amperage through switches, wires and contacts. You will need to run 24v if you expect to install glow plugs.
I thought Cat had a pretty good design and reason for the 24v system.

Would agree a pair of 8D's is overkill for the 17A, same set up used to start D9's. A pair of 4D's would probably be about right.
[quote="Old Magnet"]Running the lower voltage raises the amperage through switches, wires and contacts. You will need to run 24v if you expect to install glow plugs.
I thought Cat had a pretty good design and reason for the 24v system.

Would agree a pair of 8D's is overkill for the 17A, same set up used to start D9's. A pair of 4D's would probably be about right.[/quote]

The D7 17A I worked on has the 24 volt starter.The owner is a tight wad so we have two regular 12 volt in series I think thats right any way to make 24 volts..Use the decompression lever and she fires up.Cold weather I use just a little either.When she warms up it will crank without the decompression being used.See the wooden box?Guess what it is.
Attachment
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:27 PM
Old Magnet
Offline
Send a private message to Old Magnet
Posts: 16,694
Thank you received: 16
Reply to bjohnson:
[quote="Old Magnet"]Running the lower voltage raises the amperage through switches, wires and contacts. You will need to run 24v if you expect to install glow plugs.
I thought Cat had a pretty good design and reason for the 24v system.

Would agree a pair of 8D's is overkill for the 17A, same set up used to start D9's. A pair of 4D's would probably be about right.[/quote]

The D7 17A I worked on has the 24 volt starter.The owner is a tight wad so we have two regular 12 volt in series I think thats right any way to make 24 volts..Use the decompression lever and she fires up.Cold weather I use just a little either.When she warms up it will crank without the decompression being used.See the wooden box?Guess what it is.
Attachment
I've yet to see anyone install a complete "as Cat did" direct electric start on any 17A conversion and that goes for a lot of other installations also. Seems the "shoe makers" just can't help themselves.

If anyone has installed glow plugs on the 17A could you please share what pre-com chambers were used.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:30 PM
ronm
Offline
Send a private message to ronm
Posts: 1,143
Thank you received: 0
Reply to bjohnson:
[quote="Old Magnet"]Running the lower voltage raises the amperage through switches, wires and contacts. You will need to run 24v if you expect to install glow plugs.
I thought Cat had a pretty good design and reason for the 24v system.

Would agree a pair of 8D's is overkill for the 17A, same set up used to start D9's. A pair of 4D's would probably be about right.[/quote]

The D7 17A I worked on has the 24 volt starter.The owner is a tight wad so we have two regular 12 volt in series I think thats right any way to make 24 volts..Use the decompression lever and she fires up.Cold weather I use just a little either.When she warms up it will crank without the decompression being used.See the wooden box?Guess what it is.
Attachment
One unusual approach used by a guy I've done some work for is to use a 12V starter in a 24V system-you have to be a little careful & not crank & crank for long periods of time, but if you want to really twist her tail, this will do it-he's done this with several machines, a Galion grader w/a Cummins, & a JD loader...he has a later D7, I don't know if he's done this w/it or not...the engine literally has to slow down to idle when it starts...cranking speed is one secret for starting a Diesel, you gotta spin her over to build compression & heat, & this will do it, if you need to start in cold weather...doesn't seem to negatively affect starter life too much, if the engine's good & fires right up...
Actually, a modern 12V starter will match a 24V in cranking power, 24V has pretty much had its day...
You do see some weird stuff, one of my feedlot customers had a 644B JD loader that was a hard-cranking SOB, the 531 engine would just barely start at best, he had to keep it plugged in pretty much all year. He replaced batteries, cables, we ran a ground cable back to the starter rather then the ground in the cab, nothing would make it any better-the frickin starter just sounded draggy...so, as I was pulling it off to take to the starter hospital, I noticed on the back side of the solenoid, it said...24V!!! Turns out JD offered either system on those loaders, & some previous owner had assumed it was 24 when he replaced the starter...well, it wasn't-it was a 12V system...so yeah, a 24V starter will work-marginally-w/only 12V to it...
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Tue, Dec 13, 2011 11:09 PM
Showing 1 to 6 of 6 results
YouTube Video Placeholder

Follow Us on Social Media

Our channel highlights machines from the earliest Holt and Best track-type tractors, equipment from the start of Caterpillar in 1925, up to units built in the mid-1960s.

Upcoming Events

Veerkamp Open House 2025

Chapter Fifteen

| Placerville, CA

Stradsett Park Vintage Rally

Chapter Two

| Stradsett, Nr Downham Market. Norfolk PE33 9HA UK

Chapter 2 The Link Club's AGM

Chapter Two

| Faulkner Farm, West Drove, Wisbech, Cambridgeshire, PE14 7DP, UK
View Calendar
ACMOC

Antique Caterpillar
Machinery Owners Club

1115 Madison St NE # 1117
Salem, OR 97301

[email protected]

Terms & Privacy
Website developed by AdCo

Testimonials

"I also joined a year ago. had been on here a couple of times as a non-member and found the info very helpful so I got a one year subscription (not very expensive at all) to try it out. I really like all the resources on here so I just got a three year. I think its a very small price for what you can get out of this site."
-Jason N

Join Today!