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D4400 Genset louis Allis head

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300HandH
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A couple of weeks ago I retrieved this gen set from an uncles acerage. It has sat he told me since it was overhauled in the late 60's, and has not been started since then, not even once. The engine serial is 1S4825. This would make it what year? It was in a wooden building that had fallen down, with a tree over it. It was mostly covered by tarps and large rubber innertubes. The exhaust with a steel can, bottom intact. It took several hours work with chain saws and a JD 555 loader to get it free from what was left of the building. And clear the surrounding trees that had grown up...The pony turns over nicely...Every thing else seems nicely rusted tight though. The price was right however.👍

The Louis Allis gen head is marked 20KL297 72AMP 60 hrt 3 phase....32V exciter on top. Would this have been sold by some one other than Caterpillar? Or is it one of thiers?

[attachment=15853]Caterpillar Genset 011.jpg[/attachment][attachment=15852]Caterpillar Genset 010.jpg[/attachment][attachment=15851]Caterpillar Genset 009.jpg[/attachment][attachment=15850]Caterpillar Genset 008.jpg[/attachment][attachment=15846]Caterpillar Genset 003.jpg[/attachment][attachment=15845]Caterpillar Genset 002.jpg[/attachment][attachment=15844]Caterpillar Genset 013.jpg[/attachment][attachment=15843]Caterpillar Genset 001.jpg[/attachment][attachment=15854]Caterpillar Genset 012.jpg[/attachment]

As you can see there are pieces missing on the fuel injection pump, perhaps some of the govenor? What do you see? (four bolt fang with nothing but the bolts there) I am unfamiliar with the throttle/govenor arrangement on these old engines. My Uncle is looking for the missing parts, but will have to wait for spring to have any hope to find them I fear. He has liver cancer...and now there is snow to deal with.

I wish to get it up and running. I bet I missed the hour meter on the Injection pump, will have to look at that...

I hope I might find some help here. Or am I crazy for trying to fix it up??

Best regards, Kirk
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Mon, Dec 31, 2012 12:34 AM
Dieselholic92
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I'm jealous! I would definitely try to get it running. If you don't want it, I'll take it!
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Mon, Dec 31, 2012 2:04 AM
ccjersey
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I believe the part that is missing has something to do with the low oil pressure and high water temperature safety shut-down system. Never seen one, but it appears to bolt onto the injection pump housing in place of the usual plain side cover. I expect you could simply remove it for the time being and plug off the line that fed it (fuel???). Maybe someone has a parts breakdown on that one or a similar one in a parts book for those power units. You would need a plain plate cover for the injection pump housing to keep dust and dirt out and oil in.

The governor appears to be a CAT unit instead of the Woodwards that Bill and snowshoveler have on the larger 6 cylinder sets. The injection pump housing has motor oil in it (it's own supply, not mixing with the engine lube) and it shares with the governor housing bolted on the back. On your governor, the flyweights are located at the front of the engine on the accessory shaft that drives the injection pumps. The external arm and linkage connects back to the rear housing where the springs are that oppose the action of the flyweights. Later model engines have the flyweights in the same housing as the springs, so no external linkage and levers to stick or wear, they stay clean and lubed from the flyweights splashing etc. Your engine will operate a lot better if that external linkage is perfectly lubed and free so there is no slack, but also no "sticksion".

The pony motor governor is similar, though very simple. It most likely is frozen up where the operating shaft comes out the back housing. It's easy to remove the rear section and clean and lube the flyweights and the lever pivot inside. The pulley has a tin cover held on by a few screws. Remove that and put about a teaspoonful of clean motor oil inside to lubricate the bearings and then replace the cover. That way your first start won't be the last because of a runaway pony!

It appears the generator is slightly less rusted than the engine. The first things you probably should do with it is to lubricate the bearings and lift the brushes off the sliprings of the main alternator and commutator of the exciter (usually there are springs that can be unhooked easily) Once you get it spinning, use a special "stone" made for cleaning those things to resurface them before letting the springs back down on the brushes so they ride the surface as designed. Commutator stones can be purchased at WWGraingers, McMaster Carr or electric motor shop should have them. I have used sand paper in a pinch, but this is universally frowned upon by the experts😆

Good luck!
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Mon, Dec 31, 2012 2:23 AM
300HandH
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Reply to ccjersey:
I believe the part that is missing has something to do with the low oil pressure and high water temperature safety shut-down system. Never seen one, but it appears to bolt onto the injection pump housing in place of the usual plain side cover. I expect you could simply remove it for the time being and plug off the line that fed it (fuel???). Maybe someone has a parts breakdown on that one or a similar one in a parts book for those power units. You would need a plain plate cover for the injection pump housing to keep dust and dirt out and oil in.

The governor appears to be a CAT unit instead of the Woodwards that Bill and snowshoveler have on the larger 6 cylinder sets. The injection pump housing has motor oil in it (it's own supply, not mixing with the engine lube) and it shares with the governor housing bolted on the back. On your governor, the flyweights are located at the front of the engine on the accessory shaft that drives the injection pumps. The external arm and linkage connects back to the rear housing where the springs are that oppose the action of the flyweights. Later model engines have the flyweights in the same housing as the springs, so no external linkage and levers to stick or wear, they stay clean and lubed from the flyweights splashing etc. Your engine will operate a lot better if that external linkage is perfectly lubed and free so there is no slack, but also no "sticksion".

The pony motor governor is similar, though very simple. It most likely is frozen up where the operating shaft comes out the back housing. It's easy to remove the rear section and clean and lube the flyweights and the lever pivot inside. The pulley has a tin cover held on by a few screws. Remove that and put about a teaspoonful of clean motor oil inside to lubricate the bearings and then replace the cover. That way your first start won't be the last because of a runaway pony!

It appears the generator is slightly less rusted than the engine. The first things you probably should do with it is to lubricate the bearings and lift the brushes off the sliprings of the main alternator and commutator of the exciter (usually there are springs that can be unhooked easily) Once you get it spinning, use a special "stone" made for cleaning those things to resurface them before letting the springs back down on the brushes so they ride the surface as designed. Commutator stones can be purchased at WWGraingers, McMaster Carr or electric motor shop should have them. I have used sand paper in a pinch, but this is universally frowned upon by the experts😆

Good luck!
I checked it just minutes ago.(unfortunately it's in a storage building 3 miles away...

There is oil on the dip stick. All the levers except the compression release lever, move surprisingly easy!! This may not be that bad after all...

The tube that ends by the hole in the injection pump runs forward to a piece that apears to be in the cooling system? another tube by the pump goes up to the same piece. You can see it in one of the over head pics, above the fan/waterpump.

There are 1,638 hours on the hour meter. And, it apears there is hope!

Should I try and turn over the main engine? Any thing I should check first?? Since I don't have a hand crank, what could be used to turn the crankshaft? (besides the gen set preps you said ...)

I need Books on this thing!! Where??

Thanx, Kirk
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Mon, Dec 31, 2012 5:26 AM
n7gxz
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Reply to 300HandH:
I checked it just minutes ago.(unfortunately it's in a storage building 3 miles away...

There is oil on the dip stick. All the levers except the compression release lever, move surprisingly easy!! This may not be that bad after all...

The tube that ends by the hole in the injection pump runs forward to a piece that apears to be in the cooling system? another tube by the pump goes up to the same piece. You can see it in one of the over head pics, above the fan/waterpump.

There are 1,638 hours on the hour meter. And, it apears there is hope!

Should I try and turn over the main engine? Any thing I should check first?? Since I don't have a hand crank, what could be used to turn the crankshaft? (besides the gen set preps you said ...)

I need Books on this thing!! Where??

Thanx, Kirk
You can try Jensales.com but I think you'll need to call and talk to them. A search of their website for D4400 does not cover the serial number you posted.

Also found a listing for manuals at ssbtractor.com http://www.ssbtractor.com/tractor_manual_display.cgi?m=Caterpillar&o=D4400 Pwr Unit

Kevin
D2 5U13247 Direct electric start, #44hyd, 2S blade, Hyster D2N
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Mon, Dec 31, 2012 5:40 AM
ccjersey
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Go to the CAT literature website and see what is listed there. http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=90800&x=7
Here is the section on D4400 that seem to be applicable. There are some Parts books listed for Diesel electric sets, but not for that serial number.
D4400 DIESEL POWER UNIT 12/01/1943 8304 OM E 68 6 X 9 1S1

D4400 DIESEL POWER UNIT 04/01/1945 8848 OM E 76 6 X 9 1S1

D4400 ENGINE / / 30523 SR E 132 6 X 9

D4400 DIESEL POWER UNIT 12/01/1943 8304 OM E 68 6 X 9 1S1

D4400 DIESEL POWER UNIT 04/01/1945 8848 OM E 76 6 X 9 1S1

D4400 ENGINE 11/01/1956 UE007965 PB E 212 6 X 9 1S1 1S5000

D4400 POWER UNIT 02/01/1942 7363 OM E 52 6 X 9 1S1

Should be able to put a wrench on the nut on the front of the crankshaft pulley or fabricate a crank to fit in it to turn the engine. The crank for these diesel engines were not intended to crank the engine to start it, only to turn it for maintenance. As long as you go clockwise you will not be in any danger of unscrewing the nut or bolt that retains the crankshaft pulley, but you may need to go back and forth some to free it up. One thing to avoid is prying on the generator fan vanes which may look like an easy thing to do. These typically are a fragile casting and easily snapped off.

I would be inclined to turn it a bit and see what it will do, but you might be better off taking the valve covers off and lubricating the pushrods and lifters, rockers and valves as well as bumping the valves open with a hammer handle or something like that just to make sure it's all free. If you bump the valves open, ensure the pushrods don't fall out from under the rocker arms! Probably should do the same for the injection pumps, especially since the housig has been open for so long. The pump lifter assemblies should move up and down with a screwdriver and the rack must be free to move back and forth. Spray everything with a good penetrating oil or ATF, diesel etc.

Then get the decompression lever to the Start/decompressed position and turn it over if you can. If it's stuck or hard to turn, you can always pull the injectors and squirt something in the cylinders through the PC chambers to help free the rings. Could probably find a borescope that would let you look into the cyliders through the tiny hole in the precombustion chambers or even remove the chambers and have a big hole to go through, though at that point, if it won't move, you're probably looking at taking the head off anyway and might be smart not to disturb the PC chambers unless you have good reason to.

If everything was perfect and you wanted to start the engine, I would always plan how you are going to stop the engine if it runs away. Something as simple as pulling the decompression lever or smothering it with a board over the air intake stack etc. Much better to have a plan than have to think of something and do it as it winds up to an overspeed!
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Mon, Dec 31, 2012 11:23 AM
ccjersey
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I was looking at the pictures of the D4600 generator sets and wondered if the part missing from yours might be the vernier throttle control and not something to do with the safety shutdown system.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Mon, Dec 31, 2012 11:37 AM
300HandH
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Reply to ccjersey:
Go to the CAT literature website and see what is listed there. http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=90800&x=7
Here is the section on D4400 that seem to be applicable. There are some Parts books listed for Diesel electric sets, but not for that serial number.
D4400 DIESEL POWER UNIT 12/01/1943 8304 OM E 68 6 X 9 1S1

D4400 DIESEL POWER UNIT 04/01/1945 8848 OM E 76 6 X 9 1S1

D4400 ENGINE / / 30523 SR E 132 6 X 9

D4400 DIESEL POWER UNIT 12/01/1943 8304 OM E 68 6 X 9 1S1

D4400 DIESEL POWER UNIT 04/01/1945 8848 OM E 76 6 X 9 1S1

D4400 ENGINE 11/01/1956 UE007965 PB E 212 6 X 9 1S1 1S5000

D4400 POWER UNIT 02/01/1942 7363 OM E 52 6 X 9 1S1

Should be able to put a wrench on the nut on the front of the crankshaft pulley or fabricate a crank to fit in it to turn the engine. The crank for these diesel engines were not intended to crank the engine to start it, only to turn it for maintenance. As long as you go clockwise you will not be in any danger of unscrewing the nut or bolt that retains the crankshaft pulley, but you may need to go back and forth some to free it up. One thing to avoid is prying on the generator fan vanes which may look like an easy thing to do. These typically are a fragile casting and easily snapped off.

I would be inclined to turn it a bit and see what it will do, but you might be better off taking the valve covers off and lubricating the pushrods and lifters, rockers and valves as well as bumping the valves open with a hammer handle or something like that just to make sure it's all free. If you bump the valves open, ensure the pushrods don't fall out from under the rocker arms! Probably should do the same for the injection pumps, especially since the housig has been open for so long. The pump lifter assemblies should move up and down with a screwdriver and the rack must be free to move back and forth. Spray everything with a good penetrating oil or ATF, diesel etc.

Then get the decompression lever to the Start/decompressed position and turn it over if you can. If it's stuck or hard to turn, you can always pull the injectors and squirt something in the cylinders through the PC chambers to help free the rings. Could probably find a borescope that would let you look into the cyliders through the tiny hole in the precombustion chambers or even remove the chambers and have a big hole to go through, though at that point, if it won't move, you're probably looking at taking the head off anyway and might be smart not to disturb the PC chambers unless you have good reason to.

If everything was perfect and you wanted to start the engine, I would always plan how you are going to stop the engine if it runs away. Something as simple as pulling the decompression lever or smothering it with a board over the air intake stack etc. Much better to have a plan than have to think of something and do it as it winds up to an overspeed!
[quote="ccjersey"]Go to the CAT literature website and see what is listed there. http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=90800&x=7
Here is the section on D4400 that seem to be applicable. There are some Parts books listed for Diesel electric sets, but not for that serial number.
D4400 DIESEL POWER UNIT 12/01/1943 8304 OM E 68 6 X 9 1S1

D4400 DIESEL POWER UNIT 04/01/1945 8848 OM E 76 6 X 9 1S1

D4400 ENGINE / / 30523 SR E 132 6 X 9

D4400 DIESEL POWER UNIT 12/01/1943 8304 OM E 68 6 X 9 1S1

D4400 DIESEL POWER UNIT 04/01/1945 8848 OM E 76 6 X 9 1S1

D4400 ENGINE 11/01/1956 UE007965 PB E 212 6 X 9 1S1 1S5000

D4400 POWER UNIT 02/01/1942 7363 OM E 52 6 X 9 1S1

Should be able to put a wrench on the nut on the front of the crankshaft pulley or fabricate a crank to fit in it to turn the engine. The crank for these diesel engines were not intended to crank the engine to start it, only to turn it for maintenance. As long as you go clockwise you will not be in any danger of unscrewing the nut or bolt that retains the crankshaft pulley, but you may need to go back and forth some to free it up. One thing to avoid is prying on the generator fan vanes which may look like an easy thing to do. These typically are a fragile casting and easily snapped off.

I would be inclined to turn it a bit and see what it will do, but you might be better off taking the valve covers off and lubricating the pushrods and lifters, rockers and valves as well as bumping the valves open with a hammer handle or something like that just to make sure it's all free. If you bump the valves open, ensure the pushrods don't fall out from under the rocker arms! Probably should do the same for the injection pumps, especially since the housig has been open for so long. The pump lifter assemblies should move up and down with a screwdriver and the rack must be free to move back and forth. Spray everything with a good penetrating oil or ATF, diesel etc.

Then get the decompression lever to the Start/decompressed position and turn it over if you can. If it's stuck or hard to turn, you can always pull the injectors and squirt something in the cylinders through the PC chambers to help free the rings. Could probably find a borescope that would let you look into the cyliders through the tiny hole in the precombustion chambers or even remove the chambers and have a big hole to go through, though at that point, if it won't move, you're probably looking at taking the head off anyway and might be smart not to disturb the PC chambers unless you have good reason to.

If everything was perfect and you wanted to start the engine, I would always plan how you are going to stop the engine if it runs away. Something as simple as pulling the decompression lever or smothering it with a board over the air intake stack etc. Much better to have a plan than have to think of something and do it as it winds up to an overspeed![/quote]

ccjersey

Perhaps I am confused on these Cat publications. I looked up the D4400 and the serial lists it as a power unit, and by the serial, it looks to be made in 1956?? The end of the serial is 1S5000, and mine is 1S4825. Other wise I had been thinking is was 1947 or so...

Since I don't have it in a heated shop, it may be a while before I mess with it much. Thanks for the pointers on how to go about inspection. I can barrow a bore scope locally. Might be the best way to go, before pulling the head off.

I am inclned to think there maybe a low oil pres., or more likely a high temp shut down involved here on this engine as well....


The inspection plate on the oil pan will let a person take a peak a the bottom end I hope...

Regards, Kirk
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Mon, Dec 31, 2012 7:13 PM
Steve A
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Reply to ccjersey:
I was looking at the pictures of the D4600 generator sets and wondered if the part missing from yours might be the vernier throttle control and not something to do with the safety shutdown system.
Kirk, you are crazy like the rest of us, I would have cut that out of a old shed in a rain storm on a 40 digree day if someone gave it to me.

To roll the diesel engage the pony pinion and clutch, open the decompression for the diesel and pony and turn the pony over with a rope or by hand. I would sugest you check all the sumps for water and oil everything before you start, even take out the pony spark plugs and squirt in some oil.

Nice find
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Mon, Dec 31, 2012 7:16 PM
300HandH
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Reply to Steve A:
Kirk, you are crazy like the rest of us, I would have cut that out of a old shed in a rain storm on a 40 digree day if someone gave it to me.

To roll the diesel engage the pony pinion and clutch, open the decompression for the diesel and pony and turn the pony over with a rope or by hand. I would sugest you check all the sumps for water and oil everything before you start, even take out the pony spark plugs and squirt in some oil.

Nice find
[quote="Steve A"]Kirk, you are crazy like the rest of us, I would have cut that out of a old shed in a rain storm on a 40 digree day if someone gave it to me.

To roll the diesel engage the pony pinion and clutch, open the decompression for the diesel and pony and turn the pony over with a rope or by hand. I would sugest you check all the sumps for water and oil everything before you start, even take out the pony spark plugs and squirt in some oil.

Nice find[/quote]

Steve,

Just wish I ad gotten it out of there 10 years or more ago...Uncle is finally letting go of some things. He has lots of stuff too, but most of it is not in very good shape anymore, unfortunately. He had a dirt contruction business back in the day. Large American drag line is still there. We were going to use it to load the gen set and a 1935 Dodge brothers truck of my Grandpa's. But the clutch that run the tracks was too weak to move it, as it was froze in by then. The 4-71 Detroit started and ran fine however.

There is a D2 or D4 not sure witch, with a blade on it semi disassembled out side in the weather however. Not sure what to do with that one....Also a very large LaBlonde metal Lathe, that we will be gettin dug out, and drug home..

Oh yea, it was Snowing like mad, 4" on the ground, and about 25 deg when we removed the Gen set. I guess I wanted it too!!! And just a bit Crazy too....

Regards, Kirk
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Mon, Dec 31, 2012 7:48 PM
drujinin
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Reply to 300HandH:
[quote="Steve A"]Kirk, you are crazy like the rest of us, I would have cut that out of a old shed in a rain storm on a 40 digree day if someone gave it to me.

To roll the diesel engage the pony pinion and clutch, open the decompression for the diesel and pony and turn the pony over with a rope or by hand. I would sugest you check all the sumps for water and oil everything before you start, even take out the pony spark plugs and squirt in some oil.

Nice find[/quote]

Steve,

Just wish I ad gotten it out of there 10 years or more ago...Uncle is finally letting go of some things. He has lots of stuff too, but most of it is not in very good shape anymore, unfortunately. He had a dirt contruction business back in the day. Large American drag line is still there. We were going to use it to load the gen set and a 1935 Dodge brothers truck of my Grandpa's. But the clutch that run the tracks was too weak to move it, as it was froze in by then. The 4-71 Detroit started and ran fine however.

There is a D2 or D4 not sure witch, with a blade on it semi disassembled out side in the weather however. Not sure what to do with that one....Also a very large LaBlonde metal Lathe, that we will be gettin dug out, and drug home..

Oh yea, it was Snowing like mad, 4" on the ground, and about 25 deg when we removed the Gen set. I guess I wanted it too!!! And just a bit Crazy too....

Regards, Kirk
D2 or D4 even in bad shape may sell for parts before scrapping it.
Take a couple of photo's and post them.
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Mon, Dec 31, 2012 7:58 PM
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