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D4 carby help needed

D4 carby help needed

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Palmer
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Just purchased a 1953 d4 6u which had the pony start at full speed with no control via the throttle but i could slow it a little by operating the choke.
I removed the carby and took it apart and cleaned it out pretty well, or so I thought. Once installed again it still had the same run at full speed issue.
Took off and apart again and did the major clean through all the passage ways thinking that this will solve the problem. Not much debris appeared to be in the passages so plugged all back up again with lead shot.
I re-installed the cleaned carby and now have full speed control with even a nice idle. The problem that I have now is that no amount of adjusting to both the low speed and high speed idle screws seem to make any difference what so ever to the operation of the pony motor.
The gaskets seemed to be in good condition if not pretty new. The float will stick a little but after a tap will function well.
I can start the main with out to much trouble but i suspect the pony could be running a bit slow compared to others that I have.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.
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Sun, Jul 31, 2016 6:30 PM
edb
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Hi Palmer,
seems to me that the pony governor is either stuck by the vertical shaft being seized in the pot metal cover --no bearings, just runs in the pot metal--or if it is free then the gov. weights could be broken off--known to happen.
Carefully remove the pulley cover and see if all is well in there. Be aware that the weight pivot shafts are held in by the cover fit in the pulley and if orientated wrongly can fall out and be lost--be prepared to catch parts or remove the Gov. and do it on the bench. If not check the weights are vertical thus ensuring the pivot pins are horizontal and you should be OK.
The Gov holds about 2 tablespoons full of oil put in via the weight cover end.

If you are having to run the engine by using at least half choke then the usual thing to happen with the main jet mechanism on later horizontal main jet screw carbs is for the 90 Degree lever, situated in the little cover that holds the Main Jet adjuster screw, is for the screw to be screwed/bottomed in too tightly when feeling for the seated actually full open position, when setting the initial setting of GENTLY bottomed and turn out 1 turn.
Be sure your main jet adj. screw is easy to turn so you can feel for the very subtle bottoming of the screw--screw too hard and the lever bends until it hits the side of the little cover and you then feel the screw tension increase and then stop when bottomed, too late, she's bent.
Check the lever and re-bend to 90# Remember that the lever reverses the screw action and it is IN for Richer, Out for Leaner--be careful to not screw in to hard or you will bend the lever again and make it too lean to run without choke.
The idle adjust is 1/2 turn out from bottomed.

There has been volumes written and pictures posted on this subject here to the point of nausea. Advanced Search function is useful in finding same.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Mon, Aug 1, 2016 6:44 AM
ccjersey
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Just a reminder..... BOTH the high speed mix adjustment screw AND the low speed mix adjustment work opposite from other small motor carbs. The useful range of adjustment on the idle mix will be pretty tight around the 1/2 turn open starting point.

What adjustments do you need to make?

Do you think you might have originally had the throttle linkage installed with the control rod finger not hooked behind the linkage pin extension so the rod could not pull against the governor spring. This would allow the pony to run only at high idle speed with no way to slow it down except with the choke as you mention.

I have had pony governors frozen solid as Eddie describes. In my case I took the back cover off and cleaned up things from that end as well. Pretty simple mechanism and even less to loose in that end as I remember it. I expect most of them can be loosened up by spraying the shaft where it comes through the casing with some sort of penetrating oil, but I didn't know that at the time!
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Mon, Aug 1, 2016 10:27 PM
neil
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Reply to ccjersey:
Just a reminder..... BOTH the high speed mix adjustment screw AND the low speed mix adjustment work opposite from other small motor carbs. The useful range of adjustment on the idle mix will be pretty tight around the 1/2 turn open starting point.

What adjustments do you need to make?

Do you think you might have originally had the throttle linkage installed with the control rod finger not hooked behind the linkage pin extension so the rod could not pull against the governor spring. This would allow the pony to run only at high idle speed with no way to slow it down except with the choke as you mention.

I have had pony governors frozen solid as Eddie describes. In my case I took the back cover off and cleaned up things from that end as well. Pretty simple mechanism and even less to loose in that end as I remember it. I expect most of them can be loosened up by spraying the shaft where it comes through the casing with some sort of penetrating oil, but I didn't know that at the time!
My pony throttle rod tang can slip past the throttle shaft tang pretty easily. The throttle rod tang should be on the far side of the throttle shaft tang, so that as you pull the throttle knob out, you close the throttle shaft (against the governor's wishes). When the throttle rod is pushed right in, it basically has no contact with the throttle shaft tang.
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Tue, Aug 2, 2016 12:51 AM
Palmer
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Reply to neil:
My pony throttle rod tang can slip past the throttle shaft tang pretty easily. The throttle rod tang should be on the far side of the throttle shaft tang, so that as you pull the throttle knob out, you close the throttle shaft (against the governor's wishes). When the throttle rod is pushed right in, it basically has no contact with the throttle shaft tang.
Thanks for the effort you guys have gone to in providing valuable help including taking the time to provide the scans for reference. I appreciate that pony carby issues seem to appear at regular intervals and you are well fed up with them.
I also admit that I am by no means a mechanic and have only begun to enjoy these yellow engines in the last few years, so please excuse any ignorance that I am sure to be displaying.

The pony is running in an OK kind of way and I have solved the full speed issue which turned out to be a badly adjusted governor. The belt must have been adjusted which left the the governor positioned at an angle and prevented the linkage from retracting fully, but I can tell that it is still not running as sweetly as it should. It will run at idle with no choke although it takes some throttle adjustment work to keep it there and from dying. The pony will drive the diesel under compression at full speed with what seems like plenty of power although with a reasonably smoky exhaust. The main jet mechanism is set correct at the 90deg angle.
I gues you could conclude that the pony is running rich with too much fuel. does that sound right??
What I would realy like try and understand is why I can't get it to run any differently or have any discernable effect when I adjust either or the slow idle screw or the high speed adjustment screws.
I have done the initial settings as per the information provided. the pony runs Ok but rich/smoky. I can screw out both adjustments until they are nearly complety backed out from the carby body, and still make no difference to the pony's running or smoke emmisions.
I suspect that this carby has been apart many times in its past life judging by the flogged out screw head slots.

Cheers.
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Tue, Aug 2, 2016 6:31 PM
drujinin
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In your initial post you mentioned the "Float will stick a little". Could be the float is out of adjustment or the needle and seat are shot or the needle sticks occasionally.
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Wed, Aug 3, 2016 7:23 AM
Palmer
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Reply to drujinin:
In your initial post you mentioned the "Float will stick a little". Could be the float is out of adjustment or the needle and seat are shot or the needle sticks occasionally.
I will have to remove the carby again and do a detailed parts check to make sure that all is where it should be and also have agood look at the venturi gasket that you mention. It will probably pay me to buy a new set of gaskets just to remove any doubts.
I suspect that this carby has been having issues long before I got my hands on it by the look of the wear in the screw head slots. It has been apart many times before.
It is the needle that sticks accasionally, so may have to have another look at that as well whilst i'm in there.
Thanks again for your advice and I will report back if I have any positive developments.

Cheers.
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Wed, Aug 3, 2016 5:43 PM
ag-mike
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Reply to neil:
My pony throttle rod tang can slip past the throttle shaft tang pretty easily. The throttle rod tang should be on the far side of the throttle shaft tang, so that as you pull the throttle knob out, you close the throttle shaft (against the governor's wishes). When the throttle rod is pushed right in, it basically has no contact with the throttle shaft tang.


this, good luck
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Wed, Aug 3, 2016 8:48 PM
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