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My bege 650 is leaking back into bevel gear compartment on my 47A.

I replaced the rotary seal assembly 2 years ago and it didn't leak any until a few months ago.

Shaft has no play, bearings are new, hasn't been run dry. Other than after leak drained it dry it was run for a minute or two just to get back to the turn row.

What should I be looking for while I have it off? When I leave leave spool actuating for just a moment after rome disk opens (or closes), could that build up pressure and cause seal to fail prematurely? Because I have sure been guilty of that. At each turn, I close disk and wait until it stops moving, ie to fully closed position. And when I open it, same thing. Also I can hear the pump groan just a little when disk fully closes or opens but before I turn loose of handle.

Really hate taking this thing off and messing with it at such short intervals. Also, tank cap is fitted with a bronze wool breather and is not plugged up at all.

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Mon, Jul 11, 2016 11:38 PM

Old Magnet

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The relief valve should take care of any over pressure (providing it's working). What was the condition of the output shaft where the seal rides?
Maximum pressure is 850 psi.

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Tue, Jul 12, 2016 1:58 AM

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Reply to Old Magnet:

The relief valve should take care of any over pressure (providing it's working). What was the condition of the output shaft where the seal rides?
Maximum pressure is 850 psi.

Just got it apart. Output shaft is badly grooved where seal rides, or at least that is the assumption. Didn't notice this the first time. Guess it happened on my watch. Wondering if new seal could be shimmed down so it is riding in a fresh spot?
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Tue, Jul 12, 2016 3:34 AM

neil

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Reply to cab:

Just got it apart. Output shaft is badly grooved where seal rides, or at least that is the assumption. Didn't notice this the first time. Guess it happened on my watch. Wondering if new seal could be shimmed down so it is riding in a fresh spot?

You could fix that up with a Speedi-sleeve and oversize seal.

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Tue, Jul 12, 2016 4:22 AM

Old Magnet

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Reply to neil:

You could fix that up with a Speedi-sleeve and oversize seal.

From what I can see that looks like a pretty deep grove. Fill that groove with Loctite "QuickMetal" and slip the speedy sleeve over it so that the thin sleeve has support where the groove is. Us the normal seal, oversize is not necessary

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Tue, Jul 12, 2016 7:00 AM

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Reply to Old Magnet:

From what I can see that looks like a pretty deep grove. Fill that groove with Loctite "QuickMetal" and slip the speedy sleeve over it so that the thin sleeve has support where the groove is. Us the normal seal, oversize is not necessary

The folks at associated tractor are telling me the seal is just an o-ring. Is this correct?

I installed their kit 2 years ago and am fuzzy on details, but what I pulled out sure doesn't look like an o-ring.

Ray??

Also, a machinist friend said he could fill in the groove and turn back down to spec. Should we shoot for same diameter as undamaged section of shaft?

This is a 650.

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Wed, Jul 13, 2016 7:20 AM

Rome K/G

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Reply to cab:

The folks at associated tractor are telling me the seal is just an o-ring. Is this correct?

I installed their kit 2 years ago and am fuzzy on details, but what I pulled out sure doesn't look like an o-ring.

Ray??

Also, a machinist friend said he could fill in the groove and turn back down to spec. Should we shoot for same diameter as undamaged section of shaft?

This is a 650.

It would last longer if the groove was welded up then turned. We have company in town that industrial chromes surfaces like that, I did that on allot of my machines.

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Wed, Jul 13, 2016 8:16 AM

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I have an exploded parts diagram and there is only one "friction ring", which the diagram doesn't show enough detail to help. V-761 is the part # assigned to friction ring and a small brass washer which rides between ring and thrust washer.

Jim at Associated Tractor said he thinks they will be able to sell me just that part by tomorrow. I get the impression the small brass washer is something they make in house. I had to gotch mine up to get it off.

Pete - I did the math and took the measurements after getting shaft out and the groove is right where the friction ring should be riding, so I am afraid the groove is from the ring.

In any case, I won't get the shaft back til next week so maybe parts will all get here at same time.

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Wed, Jul 13, 2016 9:55 PM

Old Magnet

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BeGe uses a mechanical type pump seal. (not a lip seal)
If the seal seat is good and the rotating element is good and sealing properly your leak source is most likely along the shaft. The rubber part you are looking at is the friction drive for the seal. V-761 and is not likely at fault. Best fix for this unit is to restore the shaft surface.

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Wed, Jul 13, 2016 11:23 PM

Ray54

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Reply to Old Magnet:

BeGe uses a mechanical type pump seal. (not a lip seal)
If the seal seat is good and the rotating element is good and sealing properly your leak source is most likely along the shaft. The rubber part you are looking at is the friction drive for the seal. V-761 and is not likely at fault. Best fix for this unit is to restore the shaft surface.

I may be showing myself as fool saying anything rather than keeping my head down. But I have gotten away with a lip seal at $5 to 10 verses a mechanical seal at several hundred dollars. For all manor of reasons I never got a lot of hours put on any of these pumps. But it always work for a while.

Just a poor farmer making do to get something working cheap.I have to be mechanic as I don't have the funds to higher a real one.

Just dealt with a someone who got new castings for a BeGe from Assassinated Tractor at a goodly sum of money.So all parts I believe are available new,if you are willing to pay.

Just a caution after the repair the pump didn't work,but not the pumps fault as he took it off a D6 and put it on a D4 . The shaft turns in the opposite directions on these 2 models. So all was well when the pieces where put in the right order.

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Thu, Jul 14, 2016 1:15 AM

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Reply to Ray54:

I may be showing myself as fool saying anything rather than keeping my head down. But I have gotten away with a lip seal at $5 to 10 verses a mechanical seal at several hundred dollars. For all manor of reasons I never got a lot of hours put on any of these pumps. But it always work for a while.

Just a poor farmer making do to get something working cheap.I have to be mechanic as I don't have the funds to higher a real one.

Just dealt with a someone who got new castings for a BeGe from Assassinated Tractor at a goodly sum of money.So all parts I believe are available new,if you are willing to pay.

Just a caution after the repair the pump didn't work,but not the pumps fault as he took it off a D6 and put it on a D4 . The shaft turns in the opposite directions on these 2 models. So all was well when the pieces where put in the right order.

I am a little confused OM on your sentence starting with "The rubber part". My rubber part is most definitely chewed up and does not resemble an o-ring anymore. Is a mechanical seal the same thing as an o-ring?

Ray I had that thought that a lip seal would probably work fine, but since I apparently can get the correct parts from AT I will do that. Just the friction ring and brass washer will be pretty cheap. The bronze seal seat, seal ring (cup that holds rubber seal), thrust washer, and spring are still fine. I am like you; I am my own mechanic, but kind of enjoy it. I am needing pump to stay fixed in hot, dusty conditions so this time I will go back with what they suggest and will report back cost when I know.

Pete - here are some scans that might be of help to you and other Bege or Bege knock off owners. I apologize in advance for laminating them and hope the scan quality is decent. In one of these the V-761 can be seen with arrow pointing to both the friction ring and the thin brass washer.
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