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955K will not start. Fuel issue cont.

955K will not start. Fuel issue cont.

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muzz
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Still no luck with my 955K. I installed a new fuel transfer pump as talked about in "Not antique but close 955K no fuel pressure" I have fuel flow from the tank and to the transfer pump. I installed a new secondary filter and cleaned the primary and see no leaks. It has a priming pump which I have been using along with the vent (needle and seat). I prime then crank the engine, I get the fuel pressure gauge up to the bottom of the green. Im suprised I have not burned up my started, been trying that much. I cant get any fuel out of the injection pump when I crack the injection line nuts at the pump. This has the D330 engine. The throttle level moves as it should. It seems like the rack is stuck to me. Or is this thing just not yet primed and still has air in it. Only other thing I can think of to try is to pressurize the fuel tank. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Muzz
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Thu, Jul 15, 2010 9:39 AM
Old Magnet
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Hi muzz,
See if you can get a real pressure guage reading...a new pump should be putting out the full 15psi.

Your 955 model has the rack stop that will not allow movement beyond minimum until you build oil pressure so it may appear stuck when working the throttle with engine off. To check movement you need to remove the governor end cover which contains the limit stop. With a new transfer pump air pressurizing the tank is not very effective as your depending on fuel leaking by the clearances to prime the system. Does work eventually but it is very slow. The hand priming pump should be sufficient for the task, assuming it is working properly.
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Thu, Jul 15, 2010 10:33 AM
ccjersey
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Don't bother with pressure in the tank. You got that already if the gauge is up in the green.

I'm betting you're right about the rack being stuck. On the other hand, you should get fuel flowing out of the injector lines when you prime the engine with the rack at shutoff.

Could be the problem is not just the rack, but the pump plungers are stuck up in the pumps and that's why the fuel can't get through like normal. Looks to me like you have to get the tooling to pull the pumps, clean them and replace them in time on the rack.

Alteranatively, it's possible that you may be able to remove the cover on the end of the governor and gently pry the rack back and forth and get the plungers to come loose and go back down to the cam to make another stroke.

I was able to do this on our DW20 when we first put a replacement engine in it. On that D337F engine, I could remove an small cover and get on the end of the rack with a small bar and move it back and forth. It took a few minutes to get it to come loose, and it seemed to help to have the engine turning over at the same time.

You MUST HAVE THE INJECTOR LINES DISCONNECTED when turning the engine over when the rack may be stuck or be prepared to stop a runaway.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Thu, Jul 15, 2010 10:45 AM
bruce oz
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Hi muzz,
See if you can get a real pressure guage reading...a new pump should be putting out the full 15psi.

Your 955 model has the rack stop that will not allow movement beyond minimum until you build oil pressure so it may appear stuck when working the throttle with engine off. To check movement you need to remove the governor end cover which contains the limit stop. With a new transfer pump air pressurizing the tank is not very effective as your depending on fuel leaking by the clearances to prime the system. Does work eventually but it is very slow. The hand priming pump should be sufficient for the task, assuming it is working properly.
hello muzz ,here is the sheet for bleeding the injector pump,bruce oz
.
[img]http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/56/955kprime.th.jpg[/img]
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Thu, Jul 15, 2010 10:50 AM
bob
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Reply to bruce oz:
hello muzz ,here is the sheet for bleeding the injector pump,bruce oz
.
[img]http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/56/955kprime.th.jpg[/img]
Muzz, Follow Bruce's instructions and then crack all line nuts at the pump. Pump untill clear fuel comes out and tighten nuts as eash line has clear fuel. Then crack the nuts at the injectors and do the same. This should get you going.
Later Bob
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Fri, Jul 16, 2010 10:16 AM
muzz
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Reply to bob:
Muzz, Follow Bruce's instructions and then crack all line nuts at the pump. Pump untill clear fuel comes out and tighten nuts as eash line has clear fuel. Then crack the nuts at the injectors and do the same. This should get you going.
Later Bob
Went back out and worked on the 955. Got 2 injectors bleed but other 2 nothing. The rack is stuck. I removed the governor and injector pump. What a PAIN! Thanks to engineer that decided to put the turbo drain tube right in the way. I spent about 90 minutes getting the last bolt out and had to cut a wrench in half to get at it. The governor seems ok, nothing stuck or damaged. I can only get the rack to move about a 1/8 of inch with a little help.
Going to send it out or replace it. I want it working perfit so I dont have to ever take that SOB back off. I'm sure putting back on will be just as fun. Thanks for everyones help, looks like it just going to be more money now.
Muzz
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Sat, Jul 17, 2010 10:32 PM
muzz
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Reply to muzz:
Went back out and worked on the 955. Got 2 injectors bleed but other 2 nothing. The rack is stuck. I removed the governor and injector pump. What a PAIN! Thanks to engineer that decided to put the turbo drain tube right in the way. I spent about 90 minutes getting the last bolt out and had to cut a wrench in half to get at it. The governor seems ok, nothing stuck or damaged. I can only get the rack to move about a 1/8 of inch with a little help.
Going to send it out or replace it. I want it working perfit so I dont have to ever take that SOB back off. I'm sure putting back on will be just as fun. Thanks for everyones help, looks like it just going to be more money now.
Muzz
Does anyone know of a good injection service shop that still has the knowledge to work on this older pump?

Thanks
Muzz
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Sat, Jul 17, 2010 10:42 PM
ccjersey
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With the right tools to remove the pumps, you can do it.
There is a 1m6952 "wrench" that fits inside the special bushing that retains each pump so you can remove it
Also a 1m6954 extractor that screws on the top of each pump to pull it out of the pump housing and put it back in
1m6953 is a special bushing that is used with a depth mic to set the rack in the center of it's travel. The book I have shows that this is the same as setting the end of the rack .1563" protruding from the end of the housing opposite the governor after removing a small cover there.
The main thing about the pumps is getting them installed in time with the rack and checking the rack travel once you get them all in and torqued to 100-110 foot-pounds. It won't move far enough if one of the pump plungers is not timed to the rack. If you get it installed and start the engine with a pump out of time, you get lots of black smoke and some interesting sounds😆

I have a serviceman's reference book on the D330 industrial engine that shows all about how to remove and replace the pumps etc. It's not real complicated, so I would say any pump shop could handle the job of getting it unstuck if they had the tool to remove the pumps and replace them. If some of the pumps are bad, then I'm assuming they would have to be replaced with parts from CAT or aftermarket.

Adjusting the lifters in the pump housing to spec is actually better done with the housing installed on the engine. That way you can take out the effect of any wear in the gears that drive the pump cam shaft. When it's done off the engine, a degree wheel is used to set it and when it's installed on the engine, any wear will retard the injection timing to some degree from the intended point.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Sun, Jul 18, 2010 1:14 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to ccjersey:
With the right tools to remove the pumps, you can do it.
There is a 1m6952 "wrench" that fits inside the special bushing that retains each pump so you can remove it
Also a 1m6954 extractor that screws on the top of each pump to pull it out of the pump housing and put it back in
1m6953 is a special bushing that is used with a depth mic to set the rack in the center of it's travel. The book I have shows that this is the same as setting the end of the rack .1563" protruding from the end of the housing opposite the governor after removing a small cover there.
The main thing about the pumps is getting them installed in time with the rack and checking the rack travel once you get them all in and torqued to 100-110 foot-pounds. It won't move far enough if one of the pump plungers is not timed to the rack. If you get it installed and start the engine with a pump out of time, you get lots of black smoke and some interesting sounds😆

I have a serviceman's reference book on the D330 industrial engine that shows all about how to remove and replace the pumps etc. It's not real complicated, so I would say any pump shop could handle the job of getting it unstuck if they had the tool to remove the pumps and replace them. If some of the pumps are bad, then I'm assuming they would have to be replaced with parts from CAT or aftermarket.

Adjusting the lifters in the pump housing to spec is actually better done with the housing installed on the engine. That way you can take out the effect of any wear in the gears that drive the pump cam shaft. When it's done off the engine, a degree wheel is used to set it and when it's installed on the engine, any wear will retard the injection timing to some degree from the intended point.
A word of caution.....although there is no doubt we could guide you through disassembly, reassembly and adjustments, all the tooling that ccjersey mentions is obsolete and replaced by later units. If you are up to the task I can post the required tooling and I'm sure it will be pricey from Cat. Finding a competent shop or dealer is probably the best solution in this case.
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Sun, Jul 18, 2010 2:16 AM
ccjersey
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You've already got the thing off the engine too. Pretty easy to send it somewhere.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Sun, Jul 18, 2010 7:20 AM
muzz
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Reply to ccjersey:
You've already got the thing off the engine too. Pretty easy to send it somewhere.
Getting my pump back today. The rack was stuck because the #1 barrel was stuck in the up position due to fuel contamination. My question is how to install the pump in proper time. The manual says to put the engine on TDC of #1. It says nothing about what to do to get the pump to #1 TDC. CCjersey... anyone... any help?

Thanks
Muzz
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Fri, Jul 23, 2010 11:06 PM
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