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212 brakes

212 brakes

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jumbo
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On my 212, (9T441) I was adding brake fluid, and it appears now that I need to bleed the brakes as there seems to be air in the lines. Both bleeder valves are rusted stuck and may be rounded off as a 3/8 wrench just rotates without catching, and a 11/32q does not fit. Am I looking at pulling the wheels to fix this? Or, is there some better that I do not know about.

I see on different threads that a "H" style puller will get the wheel off, but getting the wheel back on, I see nothing specific except one person who pressed his back on with a 40 ton press. Is 40 tons a specification, or just a reasonable number? None of my manuals for the 212 mention pulling wheels or replacing them.

Thanks
I'm not afraid of hard work; I can lay down beside it anytime and take a nap.
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Tue, Aug 7, 2018 11:57 PM
Gatorsteam1
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Worked on a 112 two weeks ago....vice grips and a little patience got the bleeder broke loose. They were standard 3/8-24 thread. Local napa had some on the shelf
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Wed, Aug 8, 2018 2:54 AM
oldbeek
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Reply to Gatorsteam1:
Worked on a 112 two weeks ago....vice grips and a little patience got the bleeder broke loose. They were standard 3/8-24 thread. Local napa had some on the shelf
Unless the wheel cylinders are dry, the air will all bleed back up to the master cylinder. Just pump slowly. Yea,, vice grips, and penetrating oil. They have to come out some day. It takes a quality puller. The cat tool the arms are 1in X 2in going up to a 3 in ram. The ram pushes and sucks to be able to press the wheel back on at 40 tons. Just tightening the nut will not work.
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Wed, Aug 8, 2018 3:18 AM
ccjersey
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X2....most brake hardware on old CAT stuff is standard parts from Wagner, Bendix etc.

I pulled one hub and pressed two back on on the one I had as it came with a hub loose and wallowing around on the spindle. So after replacing all that I had to pull another one to replace a brake lining I could hear scrubbing around inside there. I made a fixture that was basically a loop of flat iron welded to a nut that would screw on the spindle. Put a chunk of drawbar (about 1.5 x 3 heat treated?? steel) through the loop and set a 20 Ton hydraulic jack under the bar on each side pushing on the hub. Actually the base of the jacks were sitting on the face of the hub and the pistons pushed against the drawbar. Just had to orient them so the pumps were toward the bottom and had some help getting everything tightened up. Of course there were no gauges but I pumped them both up tight and rapped on the hub with a sledge to make sure.

I think the spec was 30-40 tons but I haven't looked it up in a long time. I didn't have a hollow piston ram for the porta-power at the time and I already had two matching 20 ton jacks so I bought the nut and went from there.

When you pull one I don't recommend you leave the cap nut on since I think it will be impossible to use a puller then. Do stand aside so you don't get hit when it pops loose. The one I did with a big H puller wouldn't pop loose until I smacked the head of the screw with a sledge. I borrowed it and it had about a 1" fine thread screw on it. I think the holes in the hub are 5/8 coarse and I used regular grade 5 all-thread rod.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time๐Ÿ˜„
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Wed, Aug 8, 2018 3:43 AM
greengiant
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Reply to ccjersey:
X2....most brake hardware on old CAT stuff is standard parts from Wagner, Bendix etc.

I pulled one hub and pressed two back on on the one I had as it came with a hub loose and wallowing around on the spindle. So after replacing all that I had to pull another one to replace a brake lining I could hear scrubbing around inside there. I made a fixture that was basically a loop of flat iron welded to a nut that would screw on the spindle. Put a chunk of drawbar (about 1.5 x 3 heat treated?? steel) through the loop and set a 20 Ton hydraulic jack under the bar on each side pushing on the hub. Actually the base of the jacks were sitting on the face of the hub and the pistons pushed against the drawbar. Just had to orient them so the pumps were toward the bottom and had some help getting everything tightened up. Of course there were no gauges but I pumped them both up tight and rapped on the hub with a sledge to make sure.

I think the spec was 30-40 tons but I haven't looked it up in a long time. I didn't have a hollow piston ram for the porta-power at the time and I already had two matching 20 ton jacks so I bought the nut and went from there.

When you pull one I don't recommend you leave the cap nut on since I think it will be impossible to use a puller then. Do stand aside so you don't get hit when it pops loose. The one I did with a big H puller wouldn't pop loose until I smacked the head of the screw with a sledge. I borrowed it and it had about a 1" fine thread screw on it. I think the holes in the hub are 5/8 coarse and I used regular grade 5 all-thread rod.
very interesting and timely for me. I was just getting up the nerve to replace the brake hoses. I got one of those little things that pumps fluid into the bleeder screws. haven't tried it yet.
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Wed, Aug 8, 2018 6:03 AM
jumbo
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Reply to greengiant:
very interesting and timely for me. I was just getting up the nerve to replace the brake hoses. I got one of those little things that pumps fluid into the bleeder screws. haven't tried it yet.
An update, I was able to avoid removing the wheels for the time being. I bled my brakes via the tee on the final drive, since there is only brakes on the rear wheel, they have a plug in the forward side of the tee and I used that plug to get the air out. Might not be the proper way, but I have brakes again. I am still struggling to remove the bleeder valve on the brakes themselves, they are still rusted tight, I just keep working on them. I did find one of the brake hoses was clogged, so off to Fluid Motion for a new hose at $33. It fits, so now I will replace the other "just because..."

Thanks for all the advice and information.๐Ÿ‘

Jumbo
I'm not afraid of hard work; I can lay down beside it anytime and take a nap.
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Sat, Aug 18, 2018 6:56 PM
ccjersey
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Sounds like a good solution. I believe it will work as long as the brake shoes have enough room to move out and then retract far enough to push out the volume of fluid in the line back to the tee.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time๐Ÿ˜„
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Sat, Aug 18, 2018 8:29 PM
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