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17A Starting mechanism adjustment

17A Starting mechanism adjustment

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NickyWalnuts
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I read the corresponding section of the operators manual and attempted to adjust the starting mechanism for an hour or two with no luck. Ever since I’ve owned the machine I’ve had to pull and hold the lever that engages the starting mechanism and sit there and manually hold it until the diesel fires. I know that I should be able to pull it and hit a detent where it stays engaged on its own and it supposedly will automatically kick out once the diesel fires.

I’ve been using a pry bar with a V’ed out tip to get into that tight space and pull the magic pin out and turn the center mechanism clockwise relative to the ring gear teeth a few times. Once I pull the pin, the center mechanism seems to want to drop down in a clockwise fashion almost effortlessly. But with virtually no change to the operation of the mechanism.

Am I missing something?


-Nick
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Tue, Sep 3, 2019 12:46 PM
BigAgCat
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are you talking about the bendix or the clutch?

If the starter clutch isn't staying engaged by snapping into place then you may need to try turning the collar the other direction. The book may say to turn it a specific direction to get the snap, but the solution may actually be to turn it the other direction.

If you are talking about the bendix, then adjusting that involves tightening the screws on the two latches on the bendix. This adjusts the rpm level at which the bendix will disengage. However, if you tighten them too much, it may not disengage at all.

If the bendix engages and stays engaged before you engage the starting clutch, then you might try easing the starting clutch into engagement or pull out the throttle on your pony motor so it runs at a lower rpm.

If the bendix just doesn't latch at all, the latches may not be aligned to the stop to latch onto, or the latches could just be worn out too much to latch onto the stop to keep the bendix in place until the diesel fires up.
Cat D6 5R
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Tue, Sep 3, 2019 2:43 PM
gemdozer
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Reply to BigAgCat:
are you talking about the bendix or the clutch?

If the starter clutch isn't staying engaged by snapping into place then you may need to try turning the collar the other direction. The book may say to turn it a specific direction to get the snap, but the solution may actually be to turn it the other direction.

If you are talking about the bendix, then adjusting that involves tightening the screws on the two latches on the bendix. This adjusts the rpm level at which the bendix will disengage. However, if you tighten them too much, it may not disengage at all.

If the bendix engages and stays engaged before you engage the starting clutch, then you might try easing the starting clutch into engagement or pull out the throttle on your pony motor so it runs at a lower rpm.

If the bendix just doesn't latch at all, the latches may not be aligned to the stop to latch onto, or the latches could just be worn out too much to latch onto the stop to keep the bendix in place until the diesel fires up.
I think you talking about the starting engine transmission kicking before the big motor start you need to removed the rear cover starting engine transmission and there is a big spring and 2 big nuts in bottom and you need to loosed the big lock nut and tight the firt one on the spring just little bit for adjustement and dont forget to tight the lock nut.
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Tue, Sep 3, 2019 6:03 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to gemdozer:
I think you talking about the starting engine transmission kicking before the big motor start you need to removed the rear cover starting engine transmission and there is a big spring and 2 big nuts in bottom and you need to loosed the big lock nut and tight the firt one on the spring just little bit for adjustement and dont forget to tight the lock nut.
Is it the early or late type engagement mechanism?
Late type has a single spring loaded dog that engages a notch on the engagement rod. The dog has an engagement adjustment but requires the parts not being excessively worn.
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Tue, Sep 3, 2019 11:59 PM
NickyWalnuts
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Is it the early or late type engagement mechanism?
Late type has a single spring loaded dog that engages a notch on the engagement rod. The dog has an engagement adjustment but requires the parts not being excessively worn.
[quote="Old Magnet"]Is it the early or late type engagement mechanism?
Late type has a single spring loaded dog that engages a notch on the engagement rod. The dog has an engagement adjustment but requires the parts not being excessively worn.[/quote]

I’m guessing its a late type as the serial is very high (19292). And all I see is a single spring loaded knob that you pry out.

I suppose I’d have to have it all apart to know if the parts are excessively worn or not?
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Wed, Sep 4, 2019 8:06 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to NickyWalnuts:
[quote="Old Magnet"]Is it the early or late type engagement mechanism?
Late type has a single spring loaded dog that engages a notch on the engagement rod. The dog has an engagement adjustment but requires the parts not being excessively worn.[/quote]

I’m guessing its a late type as the serial is very high (19292). And all I see is a single spring loaded knob that you pry out.

I suppose I’d have to have it all apart to know if the parts are excessively worn or not?
Seems you're referring to the clutch adjustment knob. I'm referring to the engagement latch mechanism that releases with centrifugal force. It is spring loaded/assisted and also has an adjustment.
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Wed, Sep 4, 2019 12:39 PM
edb
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Seems you're referring to the clutch adjustment knob. I'm referring to the engagement latch mechanism that releases with centrifugal force. It is spring loaded/assisted and also has an adjustment.
Hi Team,
as ever a Serial Number saves to-ing and fro-ing to establish what change level your machine is.
The plunger type came in at S/No 17A15174.
As I cannot post scans at present I cannot post a scan of the procedure and cut away as shown in a Product Bulletin Aug. 20-1960, page 4.
From memory you need to remove the pony transmission cover and get down to the lower shaft of same--there should be a adjustable retainer nut, spring and plunger in there so that the nut can be screwed down slightly to increase the unlatching RPM's.

With the pinion unlatched you should be able to back out the spring tension adjuster nut--counting the number of turns and/or measuring the top of the nut height from the housing it is fitted into--so as to reinstall to same depth plus maybe a 1/2 turn more, as a guess, remove the spring and plunger and check the plunger edge for wear--maybe turn the plunger one half of a turn so any wear is opposite the engaging/latching load side.

If you goof on measuring and counting turns a measurement between the under side of the nut and the housing is given as 0.188" as a starting point.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Wed, Sep 4, 2019 1:54 PM
Layne
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Reply to edb:
Hi Team,
as ever a Serial Number saves to-ing and fro-ing to establish what change level your machine is.
The plunger type came in at S/No 17A15174.
As I cannot post scans at present I cannot post a scan of the procedure and cut away as shown in a Product Bulletin Aug. 20-1960, page 4.
From memory you need to remove the pony transmission cover and get down to the lower shaft of same--there should be a adjustable retainer nut, spring and plunger in there so that the nut can be screwed down slightly to increase the unlatching RPM's.

With the pinion unlatched you should be able to back out the spring tension adjuster nut--counting the number of turns and/or measuring the top of the nut height from the housing it is fitted into--so as to reinstall to same depth plus maybe a 1/2 turn more, as a guess, remove the spring and plunger and check the plunger edge for wear--maybe turn the plunger one half of a turn so any wear is opposite the engaging/latching load side.

If you goof on measuring and counting turns a measurement between the under side of the nut and the housing is given as 0.188" as a starting point.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
My 17A is an earlier machine, but I found the pony clutch adjustment to be very sensitive. One hole tighter and I could not engage it, one hole looser and it would not stay engaged. If your adjustment isn't changing things, it may be way off.
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Fri, Sep 6, 2019 12:51 AM
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