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Undercarriage questions

Undercarriage questions

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Silver
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Hi all. I've used the "search forum" option and couldn't find what I was looking for, and if this has been discussed to death please accept my apologies.
I am working at redoing my undercarriage. D6C 76a. I have one track frame off and in the shop. All the rollers are now off and broken bolts extracted, just gotta clean it up with a grinder there I cut the rock guards off.
Looking at the rollers, they actually appear to be in reasonably good condition. So my questions would be:
- Would it be a poor idea to reuse these rollers with new rails?
-Does anyone know what diameter they would be at 100%, 50% etc?
-Some rollers had a shim between the flange and the track frame. These rollers appear to have a thinner mounting flange. Assume this was done to make them the same height at the other rollers so not necessary if all rollers have the same mounting flange?
-I'm assuming new segments are a must. Mine aren't terrible, but I think that because they won't mate perfectly with new rails it's best to change them. Correct?
-Torque value for roller bolts? Keeping in mind the use of anti-seize...

I do have one new roller on this frame that I'm not replacing, as you can see in the pic. Just going to anti-seize the bolts while I have her upside down and accessible, and remove the broken bolt and weld on the one corner of the roller.

Thanks

[img]http://i63.tinypic.com/2d8fb0j.jpg[/img]
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Fri, Nov 16, 2018 10:42 AM
Old Magnet
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New rollers are 8" diameter, 100% worn at 7.32"
What you are referring to as shims under the roller mounting pads are actually mounting plates. They are of a higher carbon content to minimize fretting as apposed to just running on the track frame. A 1040 designation as I recall and a desirable upgrade.
Any rolling/engaging surface that does not match new/old components is going to increase the wear rate, at least until they are compatible.
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Fri, Nov 16, 2018 11:03 AM
TOGNOT
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Reply to Old Magnet:
New rollers are 8" diameter, 100% worn at 7.32"
What you are referring to as shims under the roller mounting pads are actually mounting plates. They are of a higher carbon content to minimize fretting as apposed to just running on the track frame. A 1040 designation as I recall and a desirable upgrade.
Any rolling/engaging surface that does not match new/old components is going to increase the wear rate, at least until they are compatible.
silver, it sounds like you already know this, but.. when tourqing the bolts remember a different spec for dry vs wet. if I recall ( dangerous) a dry spec of 100 ft lbs may equal about 150 actual ft lbs if you lube the bolt. some smarter members can comment and give more Intel a gent advice !

you have an abundance of motivation !!
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Fri, Nov 16, 2018 10:46 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to TOGNOT:
silver, it sounds like you already know this, but.. when tourqing the bolts remember a different spec for dry vs wet. if I recall ( dangerous) a dry spec of 100 ft lbs may equal about 150 actual ft lbs if you lube the bolt. some smarter members can comment and give more Intel a gent advice !

you have an abundance of motivation !!
Select torque value from these charts.....
Attachment
Attachment
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Fri, Nov 16, 2018 11:27 PM
Silver
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Select torque value from these charts.....
Attachment
Attachment
Thank you OM and TOGNOT
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Sat, Nov 17, 2018 2:40 AM
catsilver
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Reply to Silver:
Thank you OM and TOGNOT
Old rollers on new chains can work, you will get a bit of accelerated wear until they bed in together but as there is extra height on the rails, you will be able to go past the wear limit on the rollers without flange to pin boss interference. I believe there was a change in D6 rollers that meant using a spacer when the two different part numbers were mixed, keep the spacers with the correct rollers.
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Sat, Nov 17, 2018 4:37 PM
seiscat
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Reply to catsilver:
Old rollers on new chains can work, you will get a bit of accelerated wear until they bed in together but as there is extra height on the rails, you will be able to go past the wear limit on the rollers without flange to pin boss interference. I believe there was a change in D6 rollers that meant using a spacer when the two different part numbers were mixed, keep the spacers with the correct rollers.
Hi Silver, your 76A was originally equipped with 5/8" diameter bolts on the bottom rollers. Those bolts were prone to break and Cat increased the size of the bolts to 3/4" diameter when the D6C 10K/D6C 99J were introduced. The smaller bolts will work if you re-torque them after they "seat in" with use. The 3/4" bolts also should also be re-torqued.
The roller frame diagonal braces on all D6C/D/E were prone to develop fatigue cracks. I see in your photo that the diagonal brace on your roller frame has been repaired and a nice looking reinforcement plate added.
When you replace the rails go with S.A.L.T.(Sealed And Lubricated Track) they last longer than "dry" rails. Please note that SALT tracks must be run looser than "dry" tracks or damage to the seals and premature failure will result.
I ran D6C and D6D tractors for 23 years and found that I got the best results on new tracks by replacing the sprocket segments when the tips of the teeth got below 1/4" wide and then running the rails to destruction. I did not have luck with turning pins and bushings on SALT tracks as there were always a few links that had early seal failure.
I agree with catsilver on roller re-use.
Craig
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Sat, Nov 17, 2018 11:17 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to seiscat:
Hi Silver, your 76A was originally equipped with 5/8" diameter bolts on the bottom rollers. Those bolts were prone to break and Cat increased the size of the bolts to 3/4" diameter when the D6C 10K/D6C 99J were introduced. The smaller bolts will work if you re-torque them after they "seat in" with use. The 3/4" bolts also should also be re-torqued.
The roller frame diagonal braces on all D6C/D/E were prone to develop fatigue cracks. I see in your photo that the diagonal brace on your roller frame has been repaired and a nice looking reinforcement plate added.
When you replace the rails go with S.A.L.T.(Sealed And Lubricated Track) they last longer than "dry" rails. Please note that SALT tracks must be run looser than "dry" tracks or damage to the seals and premature failure will result.
I ran D6C and D6D tractors for 23 years and found that I got the best results on new tracks by replacing the sprocket segments when the tips of the teeth got below 1/4" wide and then running the rails to destruction. I did not have luck with turning pins and bushings on SALT tracks as there were always a few links that had early seal failure.
I agree with catsilver on roller re-use.
Craig
Somethings odd about that track frame. My 76A1 to 6061 parts book shows all bottom rollers to have mounting pads. You'd have to go back to the early 8U/9U to find a track frame without those pads.
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Sat, Nov 17, 2018 11:36 PM
seiscat
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Reply to seiscat:
Hi Silver, your 76A was originally equipped with 5/8" diameter bolts on the bottom rollers. Those bolts were prone to break and Cat increased the size of the bolts to 3/4" diameter when the D6C 10K/D6C 99J were introduced. The smaller bolts will work if you re-torque them after they "seat in" with use. The 3/4" bolts also should also be re-torqued.
The roller frame diagonal braces on all D6C/D/E were prone to develop fatigue cracks. I see in your photo that the diagonal brace on your roller frame has been repaired and a nice looking reinforcement plate added.
When you replace the rails go with S.A.L.T.(Sealed And Lubricated Track) they last longer than "dry" rails. Please note that SALT tracks must be run looser than "dry" tracks or damage to the seals and premature failure will result.
I ran D6C and D6D tractors for 23 years and found that I got the best results on new tracks by replacing the sprocket segments when the tips of the teeth got below 1/4" wide and then running the rails to destruction. I did not have luck with turning pins and bushings on SALT tracks as there were always a few links that had early seal failure.
I agree with catsilver on roller re-use.
Craig
The front carrier roller stand is also a problem spot, I always used new Caterpillar bolts and re-torqued them after some use. These bolts are special extra strength so torque values need to be adjusted.
I would inspect and replace the equalizer bar pads if necessary. The pads in the center of the bar may also need to be replaced.
While you have it apart this far, it is a handy time to replace the seals in your track adjusters.
Mrs. seiscat said the 'dozers always seemed to need the most repairs near Christmas and she hated "while we have it taken down this far, we better..."
Craig
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Sat, Nov 17, 2018 11:51 PM
Silver
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Reply to seiscat:
Hi Silver, your 76A was originally equipped with 5/8" diameter bolts on the bottom rollers. Those bolts were prone to break and Cat increased the size of the bolts to 3/4" diameter when the D6C 10K/D6C 99J were introduced. The smaller bolts will work if you re-torque them after they "seat in" with use. The 3/4" bolts also should also be re-torqued.
The roller frame diagonal braces on all D6C/D/E were prone to develop fatigue cracks. I see in your photo that the diagonal brace on your roller frame has been repaired and a nice looking reinforcement plate added.
When you replace the rails go with S.A.L.T.(Sealed And Lubricated Track) they last longer than "dry" rails. Please note that SALT tracks must be run looser than "dry" tracks or damage to the seals and premature failure will result.
I ran D6C and D6D tractors for 23 years and found that I got the best results on new tracks by replacing the sprocket segments when the tips of the teeth got below 1/4" wide and then running the rails to destruction. I did not have luck with turning pins and bushings on SALT tracks as there were always a few links that had early seal failure.
I agree with catsilver on roller re-use.
Craig
[quote="seiscat"]Hi Silver, your 76A was originally equipped with 5/8" diameter bolts on the bottom rollers. Those bolts were prone to break and Cat increased the size of the bolts to 3/4" diameter when the D6C 10K/D6C 99J were introduced. The smaller bolts will work if you re-torque them after they "seat in" with use. The 3/4" bolts also should also be re-torqued.
The roller frame diagonal braces on all D6C/D/E were prone to develop fatigue cracks. I see in your photo that the diagonal brace on your roller frame has been repaired and a nice looking reinforcement plate added.
When you replace the rails go with S.A.L.T.(Sealed And Lubricated Track) they last longer than "dry" rails. Please note that SALT tracks must be run looser than "dry" tracks or damage to the seals and premature failure will result.
I ran D6C and D6D tractors for 23 years and found that I got the best results on new tracks by replacing the sprocket segments when the tips of the teeth got below 1/4" wide and then running the rails to destruction. I did not have luck with turning pins and bushings on SALT tracks as there were always a few links that had early seal failure.
I agree with catsilver on roller re-use.

Craig[/quote]

Thanks Seiscat. This track frame does have 3/4" diameter bolts on the bottom rollers. I would have to assume that it was updated prior to me owning this machine. It does appear that the angle brace was broken in the past and in my opinion it appears that whoever repaired it did a fine job repairing and reinforcing both top and bottom.
I am currently waiting on quotes from three suppliers for parts including SALT rails, rollers, segments and hardware. I haven't quite yet decided how many rollers to replace, I want to do some accurate measuring and see the pricing before I get too carried away. Nice to know that continuing to use the old rollers may be an option.
I will keep in mind the re-torquing advice.
Also, I did replace the front roller stand, track tensioner piston and seals, hard bar pad, and that funny shaped quarter round piece with the triangles on it that goes over the idler bridle on this fram last year so that should still be okay.
Will inspect the other side when I get it off.
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Sun, Nov 18, 2018 1:19 AM
catsilver
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Reply to Silver:
[quote="seiscat"]Hi Silver, your 76A was originally equipped with 5/8" diameter bolts on the bottom rollers. Those bolts were prone to break and Cat increased the size of the bolts to 3/4" diameter when the D6C 10K/D6C 99J were introduced. The smaller bolts will work if you re-torque them after they "seat in" with use. The 3/4" bolts also should also be re-torqued.
The roller frame diagonal braces on all D6C/D/E were prone to develop fatigue cracks. I see in your photo that the diagonal brace on your roller frame has been repaired and a nice looking reinforcement plate added.
When you replace the rails go with S.A.L.T.(Sealed And Lubricated Track) they last longer than "dry" rails. Please note that SALT tracks must be run looser than "dry" tracks or damage to the seals and premature failure will result.
I ran D6C and D6D tractors for 23 years and found that I got the best results on new tracks by replacing the sprocket segments when the tips of the teeth got below 1/4" wide and then running the rails to destruction. I did not have luck with turning pins and bushings on SALT tracks as there were always a few links that had early seal failure.
I agree with catsilver on roller re-use.

Craig[/quote]

Thanks Seiscat. This track frame does have 3/4" diameter bolts on the bottom rollers. I would have to assume that it was updated prior to me owning this machine. It does appear that the angle brace was broken in the past and in my opinion it appears that whoever repaired it did a fine job repairing and reinforcing both top and bottom.
I am currently waiting on quotes from three suppliers for parts including SALT rails, rollers, segments and hardware. I haven't quite yet decided how many rollers to replace, I want to do some accurate measuring and see the pricing before I get too carried away. Nice to know that continuing to use the old rollers may be an option.
I will keep in mind the re-torquing advice.
Also, I did replace the front roller stand, track tensioner piston and seals, hard bar pad, and that funny shaped quarter round piece with the triangles on it that goes over the idler bridle on this fram last year so that should still be okay.
Will inspect the other side when I get it off.
Stick with CAT SALT chains, they reseal the best and have the best warranty, the choice to turn or not depends on the abrasiveness of the ground you are working in. The longer the bushes go to a bush turn, the less economical it becomes to do it.
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Sun, Nov 18, 2018 1:24 AM
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