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Trick to remove water pump impeller ? D4400

Trick to remove water pump impeller ? D4400

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WA7OPY
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I am rebuilding the water pump while I am waiting for the citric acid to show up. I have the fan and drive pully off, the nut removed from the impeller, the puller holes are tapped clean, but I can not unseat the taper of the impeller. I have made a good puller bar, pulled the puller bolts tight, tapped on the bar over the shaft as hard as I dare, tried heating the impeller. Before I quit tonight I removed the puller bar and really heated the impeller. Will try to pull it tomorrow nite when it is cold. Any tricks I might try I don't want to break anything. I have two pumps but this is the best of the two. I could ruin the shaft and drill it out but I hate to. I can make a new shaft but can not make a new impeller......WA7OPY
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Tue, Apr 17, 2018 9:57 AM
657cat
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Just wondering if you had the taper pin out? It looks like a straight shaft.

[attachment=48163]image.jpg[/attachment]
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Tue, Apr 17, 2018 10:02 AM
WA7OPY
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Reply to 657cat:
Just wondering if you had the taper pin out? It looks like a straight shaft.

[attachment=48163]image.jpg[/attachment]
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The d4400 use's a different pump. carbon seal, taper shaft to hold impeller...Thanks WA7OPY
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Tue, Apr 17, 2018 9:27 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to WA7OPY:
The d4400 use's a different pump. carbon seal, taper shaft to hold impeller...Thanks WA7OPY
There is also a woodruff key involved.
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Tue, Apr 17, 2018 10:50 PM
657cat
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Reply to Old Magnet:
There is also a woodruff key involved.
Must be a later d4400 the three that I have all have a rope packing.
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Wed, Apr 18, 2018 3:21 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to 657cat:
Must be a later d4400 the three that I have all have a rope packing.
Tractor wise the pump changed at s/n 7J5104-up
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Wed, Apr 18, 2018 4:15 AM
leon
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Tractor wise the pump changed at s/n 7J5104-up
when you heat the ass. then cool. thinking it will will release.the opposite effect is achieved. the impeller will shrink more so.when
parts are heated [to expand].then is the time to separate. after the parts cool.[as in your case].even more heat is required to bring it back to its original condition. [your logic is correct if you heat a bearing race to remove.the race cannot expand but very little.due to the bore housing,therefor it will shrink.]
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Wed, Apr 18, 2018 8:57 AM
WA7OPY
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Reply to leon:
when you heat the ass. then cool. thinking it will will release.the opposite effect is achieved. the impeller will shrink more so.when
parts are heated [to expand].then is the time to separate. after the parts cool.[as in your case].even more heat is required to bring it back to its original condition. [your logic is correct if you heat a bearing race to remove.the race cannot expand but very little.due to the bore housing,therefor it will shrink.]
I would only try to remove the impeller when the hub was hot, then let it cool down totally before I would try once more. Anyway I removed the impeller from the 2nd pump tonight. The 2nd pump impeller is brass and it came off easy, the bad thing is there is no race for the carbon seal to ride on just cast iron that is badly pitted. The split pulley is in bad shape (the belt has been slipping for years the way it looks)
Looks like 2 pumps to make one and I will have to machine in a race for the seal to ride on. It will be a trick to set the housing up in the lathe to machine it.....WA7OPY
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Wed, Apr 18, 2018 9:26 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to WA7OPY:
I would only try to remove the impeller when the hub was hot, then let it cool down totally before I would try once more. Anyway I removed the impeller from the 2nd pump tonight. The 2nd pump impeller is brass and it came off easy, the bad thing is there is no race for the carbon seal to ride on just cast iron that is badly pitted. The split pulley is in bad shape (the belt has been slipping for years the way it looks)
Looks like 2 pumps to make one and I will have to machine in a race for the seal to ride on. It will be a trick to set the housing up in the lathe to machine it.....WA7OPY
Later D4400 pumps did have a seat insert for the seal to ride on. Early pumps would require spot facing or install the later insert.
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Wed, Apr 18, 2018 9:31 AM
ccjersey
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I don't know what you are dealing with as far as seals but I know there are aftermarket seals that have a ceramic seat that is shaft mounted. This seals around shaft and backs up to the impeller hub. Caterpillar used to offer the seat washer separate from the impeller on the D311/D315/D318 engines for example but now they only sell the impeller with the seat bonded to the face of the hub.

I have one that is detached that I will try an epoxy on but my plan is to use a type 21 seal that the seat mounts in the cast iron housing sealed by an o-ring. To get a seat that fits the approximately 2" housing bore, I had to go with a seal for a 1-1/4" diameter shaft, so my plan is to bring the shaft diameter up to 1-1/4" using a plastic sleeve glued on with something like RTV silicone or a brush-on gasket sealer.

I will post pictures when I get into that project.

I also have a D333 water pump on a grader that I simply refaced and polished the grooved cast iron impeller hub and installed a new standard seal. It has been leak proof for a long time now on a machine that might run 20 hours a year.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Wed, Apr 18, 2018 10:00 AM
WA7OPY
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Reply to ccjersey:
I don't know what you are dealing with as far as seals but I know there are aftermarket seals that have a ceramic seat that is shaft mounted. This seals around shaft and backs up to the impeller hub. Caterpillar used to offer the seat washer separate from the impeller on the D311/D315/D318 engines for example but now they only sell the impeller with the seat bonded to the face of the hub.

I have one that is detached that I will try an epoxy on but my plan is to use a type 21 seal that the seat mounts in the cast iron housing sealed by an o-ring. To get a seat that fits the approximately 2" housing bore, I had to go with a seal for a 1-1/4" diameter shaft, so my plan is to bring the shaft diameter up to 1-1/4" using a plastic sleeve glued on with something like RTV silicone or a brush-on gasket sealer.

I will post pictures when I get into that project.

I also have a D333 water pump on a grader that I simply refaced and polished the grooved cast iron impeller hub and installed a new standard seal. It has been leak proof for a long time now on a machine that might run 20 hours a year.
I am hoping there is a good wall to the seal area so I can machine a pocket for the ceramic to fit into, I have repaired a lot of big water pumps just never worked on a cat before. Once I get the parts cleaned up I will see what I can find for a aftermarket seal that can be reworked into the cat housing, seems to be a lot of room....WA7OPY
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Wed, Apr 18, 2018 10:11 AM
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