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The Do's and the Do'nts

The Do's and the Do'nts

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greyhead
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I have been reading Threads here for Four years ,today reading someone brought up pivot turns ? And making this type of turn is a Big no-no (opps) Is there a " list of things to do and not to do"๐Ÿ˜ฎ
CAT 977K-11K, JD450-B ,JD690-B, IH TD-9 ,CASE 450-B JD750-E JD850-B
CAT D7-3T, KOMATSU P-68-8 LGP, CLARK 55A LOADER
CLARK MICHAGAN 85-C LOADER, CAT V60 FORKLIFT
And some old AC tractors
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Tue, Feb 17, 2009 11:26 PM
ccjersey
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I'll give you one.....OK a couple!
Don't forget to release the parking brake! Smoke pouring out is embarassing!
Don't forget to cut off the gasoline to the pony motor and let it burn all the gas out to stop it.

The links of the track chains are installed to produce the least wear on the outside of the bushings and the sprocket teeth when going forward, so traveling in reverse long distances increases wear.

Sometimes there is a need to do pivoting turns, certainly not useful in agricultural work trying to leave a smooth field, but dozer work frequently requires some locked track turns. You have to know your machine, you can pivot it right out of a track if they're worn or just slack.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time๐Ÿ˜„
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Wed, Feb 18, 2009 2:26 AM
bernie
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...engage, (pull back), the main clutch when machine is in neutral running idle...

...disengage, (pull back over center), starting engine clutch after the pinion has released, main is running and starting engine has been killed via ccjersey above...

...check the main engine oil when engine is idling, (D42T)...
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Wed, Feb 18, 2009 3:46 AM
Gordon.
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Reply to ccjersey:
I'll give you one.....OK a couple!
Don't forget to release the parking brake! Smoke pouring out is embarassing!
Don't forget to cut off the gasoline to the pony motor and let it burn all the gas out to stop it.

The links of the track chains are installed to produce the least wear on the outside of the bushings and the sprocket teeth when going forward, so traveling in reverse long distances increases wear.

Sometimes there is a need to do pivoting turns, certainly not useful in agricultural work trying to leave a smooth field, but dozer work frequently requires some locked track turns. You have to know your machine, you can pivot it right out of a track if they're worn or just slack.
Hi Chaps,
One of the main, if no other, reasons for not pivot steering is unecessarilly filling the track chains with loose muck and crap, sand and stone especially bad........you know that eh !!! We have run crawler dozers that have only achieved 800hrs with no chance of a pin a bush turn, they were knacked. Hrly rates have got to be right, but there are many who get it wrong.

Regards Gordon.
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Wed, Feb 18, 2009 3:57 AM
OzDozer
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Reply to Gordon.:
Hi Chaps,
One of the main, if no other, reasons for not pivot steering is unecessarilly filling the track chains with loose muck and crap, sand and stone especially bad........you know that eh !!! We have run crawler dozers that have only achieved 800hrs with no chance of a pin a bush turn, they were knacked. Hrly rates have got to be right, but there are many who get it wrong.

Regards Gordon.
Doing an extremely sharp turn, by disengaging one steering clutch and locking one track with the brake, is something that will make any watching competent operator or supervisor, express disapproval, ranging from mild rebuke, to full-blown "ripping strips off you".

The reasons why an extremely sharp pivot turn is undesirable are multiple .. and they are ..

1. It places severe stress on the track frames, final drives, tracks, and undercarriage in general ..

2. The sharp screwing turn creates a tendency to twist the sprocket, which can lead to spoke cracking, and it will make dead axles flex, thus reducing pressure on old final drive seals, and possibly allowing dirt in, and oil out ..

3. It creates a tendency to twist the idler and the front end of the track frame. The front extensions of the track frame, either side of the idler are unsupported on the ends, and they WILL bend under impact. At the very least, it leads to cracking of support cross-members in the track frame ..

4. If you have worn undercarriage .. an extremely sharp turn, particularly on a slope, will make the track come off. This is an indication of just how much sideways stress is being placed on the track frames.

5. As Gordon said, a sharp screwing turn, fills the sprocket and track with soil and rocks, which increases wear .. and which is carried forward to be dropped into final drive seals, the track chain, and the trackframe .. thus penetrating areas where it can create damage and corrosion ..

6. It messes up the ground, leaving a sizeable windrow, that you or someone else may have to drive over later .. thus placing increased stress on the tractor involved .. not to mention the rough ride ..
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Wed, Feb 18, 2009 6:54 AM
zip
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Reply to OzDozer:
Doing an extremely sharp turn, by disengaging one steering clutch and locking one track with the brake, is something that will make any watching competent operator or supervisor, express disapproval, ranging from mild rebuke, to full-blown "ripping strips off you".

The reasons why an extremely sharp pivot turn is undesirable are multiple .. and they are ..

1. It places severe stress on the track frames, final drives, tracks, and undercarriage in general ..

2. The sharp screwing turn creates a tendency to twist the sprocket, which can lead to spoke cracking, and it will make dead axles flex, thus reducing pressure on old final drive seals, and possibly allowing dirt in, and oil out ..

3. It creates a tendency to twist the idler and the front end of the track frame. The front extensions of the track frame, either side of the idler are unsupported on the ends, and they WILL bend under impact. At the very least, it leads to cracking of support cross-members in the track frame ..

4. If you have worn undercarriage .. an extremely sharp turn, particularly on a slope, will make the track come off. This is an indication of just how much sideways stress is being placed on the track frames.

5. As Gordon said, a sharp screwing turn, fills the sprocket and track with soil and rocks, which increases wear .. and which is carried forward to be dropped into final drive seals, the track chain, and the trackframe .. thus penetrating areas where it can create damage and corrosion ..

6. It messes up the ground, leaving a sizeable windrow, that you or someone else may have to drive over later .. thus placing increased stress on the tractor involved .. not to mention the rough ride ..
Nicely put OZ!!
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Wed, Feb 18, 2009 7:32 AM
greyhead
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Reply to zip:
Nicely put OZ!!
Hi Guys I Should have given a short history of my dozer operating lessons. At nine years old my dad had a 310 case loader (he built homes) I was put to task moving dirt away . My intro to dozer 101 went just like this.
My Grandfather- This lever makes the bucket go up and down. This one turns left that one turns right ...and so on His last words -Stay away from the banks and foundations or I'll beat ya.
So I Never had any "formal" training But thanks to the School of hard Knocks๐Ÿ˜„
CAT 977K-11K, JD450-B ,JD690-B, IH TD-9 ,CASE 450-B JD750-E JD850-B
CAT D7-3T, KOMATSU P-68-8 LGP, CLARK 55A LOADER
CLARK MICHAGAN 85-C LOADER, CAT V60 FORKLIFT
And some old AC tractors
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Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:53 AM
catfixer
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Reply to greyhead:
Hi Guys I Should have given a short history of my dozer operating lessons. At nine years old my dad had a 310 case loader (he built homes) I was put to task moving dirt away . My intro to dozer 101 went just like this.
My Grandfather- This lever makes the bucket go up and down. This one turns left that one turns right ...and so on His last words -Stay away from the banks and foundations or I'll beat ya.
So I Never had any "formal" training But thanks to the School of hard Knocks๐Ÿ˜„
So with no pivot turns, how would one go about working in the woods or even pioneering roads. Ran the stuff for a while and was never once threatened to be fired for doing it. Work on it now and have not seen any adverse effects from doing it. If an undercarriage is worn out, the tracks will roll off on a level push or on a slope. That is a good indication that the undercarriage should be rebuilt.
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Wed, Feb 18, 2009 12:15 PM
ccjersey
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Reply to catfixer:
So with no pivot turns, how would one go about working in the woods or even pioneering roads. Ran the stuff for a while and was never once threatened to be fired for doing it. Work on it now and have not seen any adverse effects from doing it. If an undercarriage is worn out, the tracks will roll off on a level push or on a slope. That is a good indication that the undercarriage should be rebuilt.
I will have to agree it is never best to push a machine toward it's limits if you want it to last a long time. This would include pivoting around with a dozer when you don't have to.

I have a 9U with a broken track frame right now. One side of the front frame where the idler blocks rest had been broken and repaired long before we got the worn out machine. Now it's time to replace the track frame and while it's off, it will be a good time to replace the rollers and most likely the tapped strips inside. One roller was already missing and the others are severly worn. Not a bad old machine except for the undercarriage, but that sort of eclipses the good parts of it!

That's what parts machines are for!
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time๐Ÿ˜„
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Wed, Feb 18, 2009 12:53 PM
OzDozer
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Reply to ccjersey:
I will have to agree it is never best to push a machine toward it's limits if you want it to last a long time. This would include pivoting around with a dozer when you don't have to.

I have a 9U with a broken track frame right now. One side of the front frame where the idler blocks rest had been broken and repaired long before we got the worn out machine. Now it's time to replace the track frame and while it's off, it will be a good time to replace the rollers and most likely the tapped strips inside. One roller was already missing and the others are severly worn. Not a bad old machine except for the undercarriage, but that sort of eclipses the good parts of it!

That's what parts machines are for!
Even when you have to do a tight turn, you can nearly always slip the clutch and brake some, to prevent a total "screw on the spot". There will be one in 100 times when you can't avoid it. All I was saying, is .. avoid screwing turns, if it's at all possible .. it places great stress on drivetrain components.

I've never threatened anyone with job loss for unnecessarily tight screwing turns .. I've always just stopped and advised them, and corrected their operating technique, so that they become a better, smoother operator, who develops a "feel" for the tractor.

Undercarriage that is extremely worn will never come off whilst running straight .. but it sure will, once you get on a slope and try to to do a tight screwing turn.
I've run undercarriage until the sprocket teeth were just bumps, and I was struggling to climb on to the lowbed, because the sprocket couldn't grip the bushings .. but I could always keep seriously worn tracks on, by careful and judicious operation, and avoiding sharp screwing turns whilst there was a heavy load on the track frame and track.
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Wed, Feb 18, 2009 3:10 PM
vasco
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Reply to OzDozer:
Even when you have to do a tight turn, you can nearly always slip the clutch and brake some, to prevent a total "screw on the spot". There will be one in 100 times when you can't avoid it. All I was saying, is .. avoid screwing turns, if it's at all possible .. it places great stress on drivetrain components.

I've never threatened anyone with job loss for unnecessarily tight screwing turns .. I've always just stopped and advised them, and corrected their operating technique, so that they become a better, smoother operator, who develops a "feel" for the tractor.

Undercarriage that is extremely worn will never come off whilst running straight .. but it sure will, once you get on a slope and try to to do a tight screwing turn.
I've run undercarriage until the sprocket teeth were just bumps, and I was struggling to climb on to the lowbed, because the sprocket couldn't grip the bushings .. but I could always keep seriously worn tracks on, by careful and judicious operation, and avoiding sharp screwing turns whilst there was a heavy load on the track frame and track.
I must say I have seen a few tracks off machines with very serviceable U/C and operators could never understand how it could have happened but as OZ says the pressure involved on track adjuster/idler on a tight turn at speed is considerable allowing slack at the sprocket........off pops your track and much alarm and despondency:๐Ÿ˜„
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Thu, Feb 19, 2009 3:52 AM
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