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Stuck steering clutches D2

Stuck steering clutches D2

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lyoncat
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My first cat 1953 5u 12968 blade,3 point linkage i brought in 2003. It sat in the farmers shed/barn with little use for the last 10-12 years, it ploughed most of its working life untill bigger wheel tractors came along, the farmer told me it sat awhile then had the blade, linkage made up for it so it was still handy for the odd job on the farm. Pony was'nt a goer when i picked it up, and towed the tractor to start it. It fired up crisp and clean and drove it around before loading, it steered and braked like a charm. within a few weeks it was pressure cleaned, pony going and parked in my shed. Now when i pulled the steering levers back there is no resistance they just flop back and forward like there not hooked up to anything. before i have to do any major work i will try and soak the clutches first. What can you use kero or diesel, any suggestions? Mike.
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Sat, Aug 29, 2009 6:55 AM
Dan Pratt
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I have used kerosene, and gasoline to soak oil off of steering clutches. You must have rusted clutch pressure plate guides to seize it like that. Try soaking it then from the adjusters try and push/pry the release arm back and forth.
Dan22 - 1936 22 Narrow, 1937 22 Wide, D2 5J, D4D
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Sat, Aug 29, 2009 10:23 AM
drujinin
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Reply to Dan Pratt:
I have used kerosene, and gasoline to soak oil off of steering clutches. You must have rusted clutch pressure plate guides to seize it like that. Try soaking it then from the adjusters try and push/pry the release arm back and forth.
Might have pressure washed the lube out of the steering joints. I'd go through the linkages and lube it all before I assumed that the clutches are rusted up.
If it isn't the linkages and seems deeper, I'd try filling them with kerosene and driving it while working the brakes and clutches.
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Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:07 PM
lyoncat
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Reply to drujinin:
Might have pressure washed the lube out of the steering joints. I'd go through the linkages and lube it all before I assumed that the clutches are rusted up.
If it isn't the linkages and seems deeper, I'd try filling them with kerosene and driving it while working the brakes and clutches.
Thanks for the reply, Dan Pratt, Drujinin, what i should have mentioned was when i pulled the levers back there was resistance and , not springy, took a bit of effort, as i pull them all the way back thats where they stayed not wanting to return back to its forward possi, you can place the levers anywhere now as if they aint connected to anything. And how much kero can i put in? 3/4 's full or fill it to the top, i figure if it works i'll change the trany oil any way. Mike.
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Sun, Aug 30, 2009 1:19 PM
drujinin
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Reply to lyoncat:
Thanks for the reply, Dan Pratt, Drujinin, what i should have mentioned was when i pulled the levers back there was resistance and , not springy, took a bit of effort, as i pull them all the way back thats where they stayed not wanting to return back to its forward possi, you can place the levers anywhere now as if they aint connected to anything. And how much kero can i put in? 3/4 's full or fill it to the top, i figure if it works i'll change the trany oil any way. Mike.
I'd take the top cover off, then look inside. I'd lube all the linkages I see in there. Then if that doesn't help. Check to see if all 4 drain plugs are installed. If they are, take them out to see whats in there (water,oil?), then put them back in. I think it took 5 gallons. I'd be ready to drive then I would pour in the Kerosene Get her in gear and proceed to either spin the clutches and not move or move and work the levers back and forth.
There is an "Official" CAT procedure to wash steering clutches. Someone on here has it scanned and would probably post it. 😄
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Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:35 PM
the Farmer3
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Reply to drujinin:
I'd take the top cover off, then look inside. I'd lube all the linkages I see in there. Then if that doesn't help. Check to see if all 4 drain plugs are installed. If they are, take them out to see whats in there (water,oil?), then put them back in. I think it took 5 gallons. I'd be ready to drive then I would pour in the Kerosene Get her in gear and proceed to either spin the clutches and not move or move and work the levers back and forth.
There is an "Official" CAT procedure to wash steering clutches. Someone on here has it scanned and would probably post it. 😄
I soaked mine in kerosene for about six months and it didn't free them although it may have loosened the rust up so it allowed me to get the finals off without breaking the drums.Some have commented that citric acid will get rid of the rust .It may be a good idea to try that before the kerosene soak.Has anyone tried the acid treatment on the steering clutches?
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Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:56 PM
OzDozer
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Reply to the Farmer3:
I soaked mine in kerosene for about six months and it didn't free them although it may have loosened the rust up so it allowed me to get the finals off without breaking the drums.Some have commented that citric acid will get rid of the rust .It may be a good idea to try that before the kerosene soak.Has anyone tried the acid treatment on the steering clutches?
lyoncat - Washing clutches in solvent is a last ditch resort that only works to free up clutches in about 1/4 of the cases of stuck clutches.
It sounds to me like the pressure washing was the culprit, and water has penetrated the clutches and rusted the drums and the clutch plate material. When you pulled on the clutch levers, the clutches have disengaged and have stayed there.

Diesel or kerosene is usually recommended for clutch compartment washing .. but it's usually recommended more as a compartment wash, to remove oily gunk, rather than as a recipe for releasing stuck clutches.

There have been suggestions and reports of weak acids such as vinegar and citric acid being used to free up clutches .. but 8 times out of 10, the only real success comes from total dismantling and clean-up and re-assembly.

The old-style fibre plates become soaked with oily residue, and when water enters the clutch compartments, it creates a rusty/oily combination in the clutch plate material, that makes them swell and jam .. and this swelling is difficult to remove without dis-assembly and individual cleaning.

Compartments one-third full, is the recommended level of solvent, if you are going to try the solvent wash, in-situ, technique.
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Mon, Aug 31, 2009 9:03 AM
lyoncat
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Reply to OzDozer:
lyoncat - Washing clutches in solvent is a last ditch resort that only works to free up clutches in about 1/4 of the cases of stuck clutches.
It sounds to me like the pressure washing was the culprit, and water has penetrated the clutches and rusted the drums and the clutch plate material. When you pulled on the clutch levers, the clutches have disengaged and have stayed there.

Diesel or kerosene is usually recommended for clutch compartment washing .. but it's usually recommended more as a compartment wash, to remove oily gunk, rather than as a recipe for releasing stuck clutches.

There have been suggestions and reports of weak acids such as vinegar and citric acid being used to free up clutches .. but 8 times out of 10, the only real success comes from total dismantling and clean-up and re-assembly.

The old-style fibre plates become soaked with oily residue, and when water enters the clutch compartments, it creates a rusty/oily combination in the clutch plate material, that makes them swell and jam .. and this swelling is difficult to remove without dis-assembly and individual cleaning.

Compartments one-third full, is the recommended level of solvent, if you are going to try the solvent wash, in-situ, technique.
Thanks for all the advice fella's , just hope i'll never make the same mistake again, killing it with kindness seem's to be the story, might of been a different story had i drove the old girl around for a couple days after the pressure wash ? Thanks again Mike.
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Mon, Aug 31, 2009 6:33 PM
Gordon.
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Reply to lyoncat:
Thanks for all the advice fella's , just hope i'll never make the same mistake again, killing it with kindness seem's to be the story, might of been a different story had i drove the old girl around for a couple days after the pressure wash ? Thanks again Mike.
Mike, start her up and select 1st gear pull the clutch in and work the steering clutch levers on and off full travel when the clutches warm up a bit and are turning they may free up. have a clear run in front of you and keep the revs low. This works for non releasing clutches and you do have to be a little brutal. Take care tho.
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Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:26 PM
ol Grump
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Reply to Gordon.:
Mike, start her up and select 1st gear pull the clutch in and work the steering clutch levers on and off full travel when the clutches warm up a bit and are turning they may free up. have a clear run in front of you and keep the revs low. This works for non releasing clutches and you do have to be a little brutal. Take care tho.
After you pressure wash ANY rig, start it up and let it warm up. Then go ahead and drive it around for a while to get everything dry once again. After that, get the grease guns out and give it a full lube job. Pressure washing can and often does wash grease out, leaving moving joints either dry or partially dry of grease. Plus the water left in those joints will start rusting everything up.
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Mon, Aug 31, 2009 7:40 PM
cr
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Reply to ol Grump:
After you pressure wash ANY rig, start it up and let it warm up. Then go ahead and drive it around for a while to get everything dry once again. After that, get the grease guns out and give it a full lube job. Pressure washing can and often does wash grease out, leaving moving joints either dry or partially dry of grease. Plus the water left in those joints will start rusting everything up.
About 20 years ago I was given a D4 that was sitting in the yard of a welding fab shop for 8 - 10 years. When I got it the Exhaust and Intake were uncovered and when we were lining the tractor up both at the fab shops yard and our yard I noticed it wouldn't turn.

When I pulled the engine to overhaul it I placed a 4 X 4 X 3/4 angle Iron across the track frames to support the bell housing. I tied back the steering clutches, plugged the drain holes on the bottom of the clutch compartment, then filled the case just below the cross shaft with Solvent or possibly Diesel I can’t remember exactly which one I poured in there.

Every day I would spray liquid wrench, LPS #2 or another spray that was in a red can every day and work the main clutch back and forth which would move the tractor forward and back. Eventually one side broke free that required using the brakes to straighten it back up. Eventually I was able to spin the main clutch pack and the tractor wouldn't move. I worked on the main engine every night and weekend and the clutches freed up before the engine was finished.

The fact that it was operating just before pressure washing the tractor, I would not believe that you need to tear into it just yet. This is assuming that the tractor has not been sitting for a very long time since you pressure washed the tractor.

I would hook it to something to give it a load in a big field like Gordon said; as soon as you build up some heat it should break loose. The big problem with stuck steering clutches as when it's been sitting outside for decades, then you might as well disassemble and rebuild.
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Tue, Sep 1, 2009 3:36 AM
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