ACMOC
Login
ACMOC
Sticky shifting / fluids overhaul

Sticky shifting / fluids overhaul

Showing 1 to 7 of 7 results
Brian.Hart
Topic Author
Offline
Send a private message to Brian.Hart
Posts: 20
Thank you received: 0
Just got my 1951 Model 12 close to fully functional. Got a bit of grading done on our road, and then the snow flew. I went to fired up the pony motor and found that I could not get the left shift lever to move. Not just stiff, as usual in warmer weather, but completely unyielding from its rear (forward gear) position--enough that that I dared not push any harder without bending the lever or breaking something. I found some ice around the point where the lower lever actually goes into the gearbox (? not sure if that is correct terminology for that yet). Got that all melted, but no go. I assumed that there had probably been water in the gear box and that it had frozen, being heavier than oil, at the bottom. Put a bit of heat on the gearbox with a small propane torch. Still no go. Started up the engine and rolled forward a bit to eliminate any kind of bind, but still no go.

Temperature never got lower than about 25°. A day later, it warmed up enough to start melting snow. Now I had maybe 8" of heavy snow, not quite slush yet, to grade off 1-1/2 miles of road before the next storm hits--enough to be way over the top for my poor little 29-horse Kubota tractor. So I got the Cat fired up again. Still no shift. Rolled forward a bit. Still no shift. Began fast back-and-forth on the lever, and eventually, it did its usual sluggish shift into reverse--so I could at least back away from the tree in front of me.

I got it backed into a workable location, but now it is stuck in reverse. I suspect that the gearbox is highly in need of a cleaning and fluid replacement, at least. I got an operator's manual & parts manual but have not yet had time to dig into it to get the specs. So I guess I have four questions:

[ol]
  • Is my suspicion regarding fluid a reasonable one regarding the cause here?
  • Does that gearbox take 85/90 oil? I have five gallons, since I need to go through all the gearboxes sometime soon anyway.
  • I see two bolts, one above the other, on the bottom of the front of the gearbox. It looks like an inspection port of some type. Is that where I would drain? And where to fill?
  • Recommended cleaning procedure (diesel? Seafoam?)? Is cleaning the gearbox even recommended or necessary? It sure fills like thick grease at the best of times, but my experience is new enough that I cannot tell if that is just to be expected of a 68-year-old machine or if there are things I can do to improve the situation.
  • [/ol]

    I would welcome any overall cleanup/maintenance ideas for other gearboxes/components as well. I did grease something like 52 zerks and had to replace the brake cylinders, so I have all new brake fluid, and the oil level is OK, but other than that, I really want to get this thing in as top-notch shape as is possible. It has only about 3400 hours on it--not bad for 68 years old!
    Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
    Tue, Feb 12, 2019 8:52 PM
    STEPHEN
    Offline
    Send a private message to STEPHEN
    Posts: 2,461
    Thank you received: 1
    Ok, not familiar with the 12, but working from small knowledge of the 212. Do you have a parts & operators book? Stiff/frozen shifting in cold weather tells me the oil is too thick, old, or has water in the case. Also water in the case condenses inside the trans top and rusts the works. You might look into the gear selection lever for lube on the lever ball/pivot & mechanisms. Tap the drain for a sample, if you have never changed the oil then it is likely very old.
    Oil weight? For cold like you say, ask your dealer, consult the operator book, or a kind member might offer a suggestion.
    Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
    Thu, Feb 14, 2019 8:35 AM
    edb
    Offline
    Member
    Send a private message to edb
    Posts: 4,090
    Thank you received: 27
    Reply to STEPHEN:
    Ok, not familiar with the 12, but working from small knowledge of the 212. Do you have a parts & operators book? Stiff/frozen shifting in cold weather tells me the oil is too thick, old, or has water in the case. Also water in the case condenses inside the trans top and rusts the works. You might look into the gear selection lever for lube on the lever ball/pivot & mechanisms. Tap the drain for a sample, if you have never changed the oil then it is likely very old.
    Oil weight? For cold like you say, ask your dealer, consult the operator book, or a kind member might offer a suggestion.
    Hi Team,
    scan from my grey No 12 7T Operation & Maintenance Instruction Book.

    I stand to be corrected---- but it is likely that one of the modern thinner Universal Tractor Transmission/hydraulic oils would work in the colder climates as well as more temperate ones--others from the Northern States would be better guides than I.
    Hope this helps.
    Cheers,
    Eddie B.
    Attachment
    Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
    Thu, Feb 14, 2019 10:11 AM
    ccjersey
    Offline
    Send a private message to ccjersey
    Posts: 4,422
    Thank you received: 0
    I agree with Eddie. This winter, I would drain the transmission and refill with a tractor hy-tran fluid to run until hot weather and to act as a cheaper flushing fluid. Then assuming you get it shifting properly, you may want to refill with a 50 weight gear lube as specified for many modern heavy truck transmissions these days.

    Sorry I cannot help you on the plugs to drain and check level etc. Had a '53 212 for a few years but too long ago to remember how it was checked and filled. I would bet it holds more than 5 gallons though! I am thinking the transmission lube will likely equalize with the rear end housing so you may drain both at the same time??????

    I am surprised it has a reverser since our 12E does not. Coming from experience on D6 tractors of that era, I find the lack of a reverser on the 12E mystifying. The 212 I can somewhat understand with it being the baby model in the lineup.
    D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
    Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
    Fri, Feb 15, 2019 12:28 AM
    Brian.Hart
    Topic Author
    Offline
    Send a private message to Brian.Hart
    Posts: 20
    Thank you received: 0
    Reply to ccjersey:
    I agree with Eddie. This winter, I would drain the transmission and refill with a tractor hy-tran fluid to run until hot weather and to act as a cheaper flushing fluid. Then assuming you get it shifting properly, you may want to refill with a 50 weight gear lube as specified for many modern heavy truck transmissions these days.

    Sorry I cannot help you on the plugs to drain and check level etc. Had a '53 212 for a few years but too long ago to remember how it was checked and filled. I would bet it holds more than 5 gallons though! I am thinking the transmission lube will likely equalize with the rear end housing so you may drain both at the same time??????

    I am surprised it has a reverser since our 12E does not. Coming from experience on D6 tractors of that era, I find the lack of a reverser on the 12E mystifying. The 212 I can somewhat understand with it being the baby model in the lineup.
    Well, when it comes to cold weather, the current situation is very much an outlier. Here in the Pacific NW (near Portland, OR), the average high and low in January are 47° and 36°, respectively. We generally get anywhere from one to four or five days of actual snowfall each year, with accumulations between half an inch and, on the very rare year 36". But most typical is perhaps 6", 12", and 18" - 24", each about every third year. So the recent two or three days at 25° with 16" snow, although it occurs briefly perhaps every second or third year, and even more rarely, perhaps every five or six years, gets down to 10° for a few days, freezing temperature are relatively atypical and do not last long. It is just that when it does get that cold, I need my grader to work. With our current snow event past, I see lows above 30° for the next two weeks and highs in the high 30's to mid-40s.

    I expect that others might interpret "cold weather" as anywhere from 20° to well below zero for weeks on end. Given the generally moderate climate, is there still a need to use cold-specific fluids? I will do that so long as I do not have to bounce between those and others. I suspect the bigger problem is that this machine probably had zero maintenance in the last few years. I know the guy selling it had it up for sale for maybe two years, and he bought it from a hazel nut grower that had bought it new many years ago for farming in the moderate Willamette Valley.
    Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
    Fri, Feb 15, 2019 12:43 AM
    edb
    Offline
    Member
    Send a private message to edb
    Posts: 4,090
    Thank you received: 27
    Reply to Brian.Hart:
    Well, when it comes to cold weather, the current situation is very much an outlier. Here in the Pacific NW (near Portland, OR), the average high and low in January are 47° and 36°, respectively. We generally get anywhere from one to four or five days of actual snowfall each year, with accumulations between half an inch and, on the very rare year 36". But most typical is perhaps 6", 12", and 18" - 24", each about every third year. So the recent two or three days at 25° with 16" snow, although it occurs briefly perhaps every second or third year, and even more rarely, perhaps every five or six years, gets down to 10° for a few days, freezing temperature are relatively atypical and do not last long. It is just that when it does get that cold, I need my grader to work. With our current snow event past, I see lows above 30° for the next two weeks and highs in the high 30's to mid-40s.

    I expect that others might interpret "cold weather" as anywhere from 20° to well below zero for weeks on end. Given the generally moderate climate, is there still a need to use cold-specific fluids? I will do that so long as I do not have to bounce between those and others. I suspect the bigger problem is that this machine probably had zero maintenance in the last few years. I know the guy selling it had it up for sale for maybe two years, and he bought it from a hazel nut grower that had bought it new many years ago for farming in the moderate Willamette Valley.
    Hi Team,
    am confused with terminologies like Johnson Bars and the like.

    From memory of 99E's and later No12's etc. the Inner H pattern moving gear lever shifts gears for the Forward and Reverse speeds in the main box, and the Outer For and Aft only moving lever is only a High and Low Range for use with the gears in the main box to double the ratios available.
    I stand to be corrected.
    From your later explanations I feel ice is what is causing most of your shifting problems. Ice coming from water introduced into the higher and more remote areas of the Trans. by the process of condensation and/or deteriorated gear shift linkage boots at their entry points to the Trans. Case.
    Unit needs warming by low, gentle heating of the Trans. cases and maybe more so the linkage housings to melt the ice and thence drain and flush with cheap oil, or operating with the gears you can get--likely hard to do with your current ambient temps.

    Also suggest to service the Trans. breather on the top left rear face of the rear axle housing at the square cover/fill/level plate.
    The rear axle housing fill and level plug is on the elbow on the rear axle cover plate--drain plug is under the same case.
    Drain for the Trans. box is near the cross member mounting on the Trans front support beam. Level plug should be nearby on one side or the other of the Trans. Box.
    Note grease points on all gear shift linkages to keep it all moving freely when the ice/moisture has been dealt with.


    Operators Instruction Book I have for 9K and 7T machines is Form No 9008, Dated 10-45.
    The illustrations on the foldout strip page in the OI Book for said drain/fill plugs is a bit of a dogs dinner to enable meaningful copying of the pictures--hope my explanation helps locate them.

    Cheers,
    Eddie B.


    Cheers,
    Eddie B.
    Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
    Fri, Feb 15, 2019 12:04 PM
    captain k
    Offline
    Send a private message to captain k
    Posts: 76
    Thank you received: 0
    Reply to edb:
    Hi Team,
    am confused with terminologies like Johnson Bars and the like.

    From memory of 99E's and later No12's etc. the Inner H pattern moving gear lever shifts gears for the Forward and Reverse speeds in the main box, and the Outer For and Aft only moving lever is only a High and Low Range for use with the gears in the main box to double the ratios available.
    I stand to be corrected.
    From your later explanations I feel ice is what is causing most of your shifting problems. Ice coming from water introduced into the higher and more remote areas of the Trans. by the process of condensation and/or deteriorated gear shift linkage boots at their entry points to the Trans. Case.
    Unit needs warming by low, gentle heating of the Trans. cases and maybe more so the linkage housings to melt the ice and thence drain and flush with cheap oil, or operating with the gears you can get--likely hard to do with your current ambient temps.

    Also suggest to service the Trans. breather on the top left rear face of the rear axle housing at the square cover/fill/level plate.
    The rear axle housing fill and level plug is on the elbow on the rear axle cover plate--drain plug is under the same case.
    Drain for the Trans. box is near the cross member mounting on the Trans front support beam. Level plug should be nearby on one side or the other of the Trans. Box.
    Note grease points on all gear shift linkages to keep it all moving freely when the ice/moisture has been dealt with.


    Operators Instruction Book I have for 9K and 7T machines is Form No 9008, Dated 10-45.
    The illustrations on the foldout strip page in the OI Book for said drain/fill plugs is a bit of a dogs dinner to enable meaningful copying of the pictures--hope my explanation helps locate them.

    Cheers,
    Eddie B.


    Cheers,
    Eddie B.
    I've used my late 8T in -20C weather. It's a bit stiff at first, but nothing like you're describing. I would get it somewhere warm and change the oil and look for where the water is getting in.
    Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
    Fri, Feb 15, 2019 9:54 PM
    kracked1
    Offline
    Send a private message to kracked1
    Posts: 741
    Thank you received: 0
    Reply to captain k:
    I've used my late 8T in -20C weather. It's a bit stiff at first, but nothing like you're describing. I would get it somewhere warm and change the oil and look for where the water is getting in.
    It has been a few years since I have been under an 8T. I remember there are 3 drain plugs. One under the differential. One under the front PTO outlet up high in the front and one on the bottom side of the filter screen on the lower side of the transmission. The filter will be plugged with ice crystals if there is any water in the oil. The transmission/differential assembly uses a straight 50 weight mineral oil, 13 gallons rings a bell. It is filled from the plug on the top rear of the differential housing. The front PTO unit will fill with oil pumped up into it, there is an internal oil pump. I have ran ours way below zero with 50 weight in it. They do shift rather hard until the oil gets up to temp.
    Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
    Sun, Feb 17, 2019 2:47 AM
    Showing 1 to 7 of 7 results
    YouTube Video Placeholder

    Follow Us on Social Media

    Our channel highlights machines from the earliest Holt and Best track-type tractors, equipment from the start of Caterpillar in 1925, up to units built in the mid-1960s.

    Upcoming Events

    WARRACKNABEAL EASTER RALLY 2026

    Chapter Nineteen

    | Wheatlands Warracknabeal Agricultural Museum 34 Henty Highway, Warracknabeal 3393

    Lake Goldsmith 127th Rally

    Chapter Nineteen

    | 1234 Carngham - Lake Goldsmith Road ​Lake Goldsmith VIC 3373

    HIGRO JUBILEUMEDITIE!

    | “De Domelaar” Gebr .V.d. Heiden Domelaarsweg 3 7475 MARKELO Netherlands

    Chapter 2 AGM

    Chapter Two

    | Folds Farm, Godshillwood, Fordingbridge, Hampshire, SP6 2LU
    View Calendar
    ACMOC

    Antique Caterpillar
    Machinery Owners Club

    1115 Madison St NE # 1117
    Salem, OR 97301

    [email protected]

    Terms & Privacy
    Website developed by AdCo

    Testimonials

    "I became a member recently because the wealth of knowledge here is priceless." 
    -Chris R

    Join Today!