Stencil or Decal, That will eventually be the question.

I will be buying a set from the store. I bought a set off a guy in the uk and the colour looks to dark. This man is ment to be an expert on old cats and it all looks wrong to me.

Hello Newbie, I think Pete’s explanation of the stencils and decals is spot on, thanks Pete.
And the research and knowledge on decals that has been done over many years by Kent Bates is a credit to him and ACMOC on what he has achieved..
Other than the decals being a shade lighter in colour (RED) then the earlier decals sold by ACMOC due to club changing printing company’s a short while back, but now has been sorted out back to the right shade of slightly darker red! minor hiccup!
I have spoken and corresponded with Kent on several occasions about this matter and has been extremely helpful, If your wanting stickers the club sells quality decals for sure! Mike.

Blakeystew, it’s obvious that the man in question is Byron Heal by the negative replies you post on any thread that relates to him on any subject, as for the decals in question I too have acquired the same decals from Byron through another Australian collector that brought several sets for himself plus one for my PV 2616 TS and the colour matches my restored 2 ton by Jim Zimmerman and John Hopp Snr that I brought in from the USA, (thanks again Pete) the decals you refer to are spares that Les and Byron doubled ordered by mistake way back even before Trisha Potts had left the club. And I can assure you that they are the right shade, even though I’m not an expert on old cats!! Knowing that Byron can’t reply on this forum to your posts is really big of you!
If you got a gripe with him sort it out as he lives in your back yard, If your not over joyed by my comments your welcome to PM or call me?
Lyoncat.

G'Day Pete,

Thanks for putting in the effort with the pictures and explanations. I found it all very informative.

In summary of what you were saying.....

Many of the tractors in the era of mine and earlier, had hand painted lettering. They also had decals for all the fine stuff, that would be simply to complex to try to paint on with stencils of free hand. We have brass plates for the really detailed text work. With that understanding, we can safely assume that the big text was painted with a stencil. The rest of the paint like text was in fact decals.

I find all this really interesting. I suppose my questions now are.... What were the original decals made from? What did they use as glue? What did they use as the clear layer?

Just a point in note, recalled while reading your last message, is that most china had it's pattern attached through the use of pre-printed waxed paper decals that would be applied and removed to allow the drying of the pigmented glaze so the next colour could be applied. Then, when all colours were applied, it would be fired the second time to melt and fix the glazing. This was common practice at the turn of the last century.

With this in mind, I can very easily see how it could be taken further and the decal (as we know it) was developed. And at such an early point in history. I suppose i just never would have believed that the decal would be developed so early on.


Cheers,

Phill.

Early materials did not hold up to the weather as well as high grade vinyl no days that have far better UV protection. The new stuff still fades, but not as fast as early vinyl. As far as clear cost I have never used it on decals. Some do some don't .
Terry

I purchased a decal set for my D2/3J from The ACMOC store about 8 years ago. Still have not installed then on the tractor yet. They are very high quality reproductions of the originals. Only problem is, they sent me a
"U" series oil filter decal for the dash when my model is supposed to have the little scroll decal. I don't know if you can buy just one decal at a time. I could be out of luck.
Joe Giraud
40' D2/3J#4103
41' Dodge WC-12 Military 4x4 1/2 ton Pick-up

[quote="Dozerman51"]I purchased a decal set for my D2/3J from The ACMOC store about 8 years ago. Still have not installed then on the tractor yet. They are very high quality reproductions of the originals. Only problem is, they sent me a
"U" series oil filter decal for the dash when my model is supposed to have the little scroll decal. I don't know if you can buy just one decal at a time. I could be out of luck.
Joe Giraud
40' D2/3J#4103
41' Dodge WC-12 Military 4x4 1/2 ton Pick-up[/quote]

Dozerman51

A set of ACMOC decals came with my tractor from the previous owner who never got around to doing the restoration. I don't know how long ago (10 yrs or more) he bought them but when I finally put them on last June, I found them a bit harder to work with which I contributed to their age. My thinking is don't wait too long to put them on.

Jan

I'm sure that there were some markings that were stencil'd, but I believe the majority of them were decals. In some of my research I remember running across a circa 1914 telegram from Holt in Stockton to Holt in Peoria telling them to send more "Caterpillar" decals, as they were very pleased with the first batch they got but had run out. I could be wrong, but I think many of the original decals were screen printed on clear material vs. the die-cut lettering we tend to use today. The prints don't really specify which style decal (screen printed vs. die-cut), just the color, size and style of the lettering. They do call out the supplier though. I know "Decalomania" was used for many of the early ones.

Dave