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Some electrical and serial # plate questions

Some electrical and serial # plate questions

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neil
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8F3333 generator - I need to join the two field coils as the wire between them broke (solid copper). I'm thinking of crimp connecting them - would that be satisfactory?
The two connection studs for A and F - how do I separate them from the wire from the fields? Is the wire passed through a hole and then the stud drawn tight into the insulating bushing that passes through the generator case?
Is there a 6V starter in the 40/50MT family that I could consider for the D2?

Serial # plate - what size drill to use for drilling out the drive pin holes? Is there someone that could stamp me out a new Tractor plate for the D2's transmission plate, and an Hydraulic control serial # plate for the #44, if I send them my serial #s? I'd like them done in whatever font that is that Cat used (what is it?)
Has anyone ever seen a second plate attached to the back of the #44, on the left side of the tank opposite where the serial # is? It's a rectangular plate 6" across by 2" down but I don't know what was on the plate - instructions I'm guessing. Parts book doesn't show anything
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Mon, Apr 10, 2017 7:28 AM
ccjersey
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Usually the windings are either soldered (really brazed) to the studs or have a ring terminal attached that the stud goes through before going through the insulating bushing. Just remove the nuts and washers paying attention to the position of insulating and flat washers and push the stud into the interior of the housing.

The windings may be fine just crimping a splice, but I like to solder the crimped sleeve to ensure the best continuity. So scrape or sand the enamel off the wire before crimping and then electrical solder will flow over it. The factory probably used a silver brazing process to make the connections so the joints would be able to stand more heat.

Before you fix the break, you may want to ohm the windings and compare the two as way to check their condition. Also need to check for resistance between the windings and the frame of the field, pole shoes etc.

I wouldn't waste much time looking for a 6 volt starter for the diesel. If such a thing existed, it would be a dog compared to a 12 volt or 24 volt starter. I think the factory option would have been 24 volt at the time with 12 volt starters becoming more common through the 60's.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Mon, Apr 10, 2017 9:35 AM
neil
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Reply to ccjersey:
Usually the windings are either soldered (really brazed) to the studs or have a ring terminal attached that the stud goes through before going through the insulating bushing. Just remove the nuts and washers paying attention to the position of insulating and flat washers and push the stud into the interior of the housing.

The windings may be fine just crimping a splice, but I like to solder the crimped sleeve to ensure the best continuity. So scrape or sand the enamel off the wire before crimping and then electrical solder will flow over it. The factory probably used a silver brazing process to make the connections so the joints would be able to stand more heat.

Before you fix the break, you may want to ohm the windings and compare the two as way to check their condition. Also need to check for resistance between the windings and the frame of the field, pole shoes etc.

I wouldn't waste much time looking for a 6 volt starter for the diesel. If such a thing existed, it would be a dog compared to a 12 volt or 24 volt starter. I think the factory option would have been 24 volt at the time with 12 volt starters becoming more common through the 60's.
Thanks cc. I take it ohms through the windings should be zero? I will run those other checks you mentioned. The windings are out of the case currently (pun...) and the insulation between the coils and the field shoe is paper. Could I substitute in kitchen baking paper which looks to be about the same material?
6V starter - was really just curious if they existed in the MT format. If they did, I'd be interested in see if one could actually start the D2 (when it was already warmed and had been running). I understand I'd need to double the amps up to make similar power to say a 12v starter in this application. If none are available, no worries. I'm keeping this unit at 6v regardless.
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Mon, Apr 10, 2017 7:57 PM
ccjersey
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I think parchment paper would be a reasonable substitute unless you could get actual paper insulating sheet from somewhere.

The resistance will read very low. It will depend a lot on how good a connection you make with the test probes, but the idea is to compare the two windings as accurately as possible. Not knowing a spec for the resistance you would hope that if there was damage, it would be worse in one coil than the other and you can detect it by a major difference in resistance. Since you cannot do without either coil, if there are major differences in resistance and the generator will not function properly, you should be safe in assuming the coils are one problem.

The shop here still works on starters etc, and I yeas ago i watched them reassemble a field and pole shoes. Seems like most of those windings are cloth wrapped and no paper was used.

Do you know how to check the armature with an ohm meter? Not as good as a "growler" but can pick up opens and shorts to frame
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Mon, Apr 10, 2017 9:58 PM
neil
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Reply to ccjersey:
I think parchment paper would be a reasonable substitute unless you could get actual paper insulating sheet from somewhere.

The resistance will read very low. It will depend a lot on how good a connection you make with the test probes, but the idea is to compare the two windings as accurately as possible. Not knowing a spec for the resistance you would hope that if there was damage, it would be worse in one coil than the other and you can detect it by a major difference in resistance. Since you cannot do without either coil, if there are major differences in resistance and the generator will not function properly, you should be safe in assuming the coils are one problem.

The shop here still works on starters etc, and I yeas ago i watched them reassemble a field and pole shoes. Seems like most of those windings are cloth wrapped and no paper was used.

Do you know how to check the armature with an ohm meter? Not as good as a "growler" but can pick up opens and shorts to frame
I was going to take the armature down to the shop to have them check it, turn the commutator and undercut it.

But yes please can you explain how to test the armature in my garage? I have a Feit multimeter (sadly not a Fluke...). I have a 6/12v battery charger with "start" option, and a spare 12v battery and jumper cables.

I will check the two coils tonight. I do actually have a new set of coils but I want to still use the old ones if they cut the mustard, and keep the news ones for spare. The tail leads on the new coils are stranded wire with cloth insulation, whereas the old coils just have the winding wire continuing out to the terminal studs.
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Tue, Apr 11, 2017 12:04 AM
neil
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Reply to neil:
I was going to take the armature down to the shop to have them check it, turn the commutator and undercut it.

But yes please can you explain how to test the armature in my garage? I have a Feit multimeter (sadly not a Fluke...). I have a 6/12v battery charger with "start" option, and a spare 12v battery and jumper cables.

I will check the two coils tonight. I do actually have a new set of coils but I want to still use the old ones if they cut the mustard, and keep the news ones for spare. The tail leads on the new coils are stranded wire with cloth insulation, whereas the old coils just have the winding wire continuing out to the terminal studs.
Hi cc,
I had the armature growled and it checked out ok. The field coils show 23M ohms to earth, which seems like it's "mostly" insulated : ). That's without any new parchment paper so I'll fit some to it.

Would you or anyone know if there is someone that can stamp out a couple of new serial # plates for me? I need a new one for the back of the tractor, and a new one for the #44 hydraulic control.
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Thu, Apr 20, 2017 9:02 PM
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