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Slow hydraulic lift on Cat D5B 98J

Slow hydraulic lift on Cat D5B 98J

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Ianlr
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I have a 3 yard towed scoop built by Britstand. Lifting it to dump is extremely slow. When my brother borrowed the scoop to use with his Case wheel tractor he had the same problem until he was advised to adjust a valve in the tractor system that dramatically increased the oil flow rate. This valve was there to stop normal hydraulic cylinders on towed implements moving too quickly and bouncing. So i am assuming that there is nothing wrong with the scoop hydraulics. The dozer blade hydraulics work very well ie quickly so i am inclined to think the pump is ok. Also the steering clutches work well. I have tried both implement circuits with the same slow response. Is there any adjustment i should make to get a better result or do i possibly have a problem inthe valve stack either leaking or pressure relief valves etc. Any help appreciated.
Ian
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Thu, Nov 26, 2015 9:03 AM
Old Magnet
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Have no idea about that brand but the usual check on hydraulics is will the valve/cylinders hold position. If they do I would think you are free to do flow adjustments if you have that feature. Problems might arise if you wind up with an unbalanced system where there are multiple cylinders.
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Thu, Nov 26, 2015 11:54 PM
Ianlr
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Have no idea about that brand but the usual check on hydraulics is will the valve/cylinders hold position. If they do I would think you are free to do flow adjustments if you have that feature. Problems might arise if you wind up with an unbalanced system where there are multiple cylinders.


Sir
Once again thankyou for your responses to my requests for info. I wont make a habit of saying this every time in the interests of not cluttering the forum so take it for granted that i really appreciate your prompt, honest and informative responses.
Ian
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Fri, Nov 27, 2015 6:14 AM
old-iron-habit
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Reply to Ianlr:


Sir
Once again thankyou for your responses to my requests for info. I wont make a habit of saying this every time in the interests of not cluttering the forum so take it for granted that i really appreciate your prompt, honest and informative responses.
Ian
Do you have any pictures. I am wondering if the cylinders are old style large volume cylinders designed for large volume, low pressure hudraulic pumps. By working betterfor your brother after he adjusted his hydraulics for more flow it seems that could be it.
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Fri, Nov 27, 2015 7:06 AM
rusted
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Reply to old-iron-habit:
Do you have any pictures. I am wondering if the cylinders are old style large volume cylinders designed for large volume, low pressure hudraulic pumps. By working betterfor your brother after he adjusted his hydraulics for more flow it seems that could be it.
Not related to your hydraulic issues at all, but I notice on your threads that you refer to your 98J as a D5B. The 98J series are a D5, not the later B series, though your serial number is very close to the end of the production run of the 98J.
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Fri, Nov 27, 2015 9:11 AM
Ianlr
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Reply to rusted:
Not related to your hydraulic issues at all, but I notice on your threads that you refer to your 98J as a D5B. The 98J series are a D5, not the later B series, though your serial number is very close to the end of the production run of the 98J.


Rusted
You may be right. I was told when i bought it from Tillys in Toowoomba that it was a D5B. When i looked it up on the Richie wiki i saw that my serial number 2106 was higher than what they said. The dozer does gave a decal saying Special Application. If you look at Tillys website at this moment you will see several 98Js being currently dismantled and shown as D5Bs. Having said all this is my mistake of any practical significance eg getting parts.
Ian
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Fri, Nov 27, 2015 4:43 PM
Ianlr
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Reply to old-iron-habit:
Do you have any pictures. I am wondering if the cylinders are old style large volume cylinders designed for large volume, low pressure hudraulic pumps. By working betterfor your brother after he adjusted his hydraulics for more flow it seems that could be it.


Old-iron
You are probably right. These scoops were made by Bristand in Australia probably in the 1950s. They may have been made under licence from a UK or USA manufacturer. You can google them readily. They were i believe ideally matched to the Oliver DDH Cletrac which were very popular in Australia. I in fact have 3 of them with the intention of keeping one operational for real work. However reality intruded and i bought the D5 which is nearly 30 years younger. The major issue with my Cletrac became the undercarriage - rear sprockets, tracks and rollers. It was also an absolute pain to do the dailty track roller greasing. Anyhow the Cletrac certainly appears to have a very high volume pump. The blade hydraulic rams are 6 inch bore and the hoses at least 1 inch. Mind you the long stroke rams on the scoop are fed by ordinary half inch hoses. I will be disappointed if i cant get the scoop to work effectively with the D5 as i have already seen the potential - the dirt just boiled into the scoop but it took forever to tip it out. I will post photos of the scoop hopefully later tonight.
Ian
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Fri, Nov 27, 2015 5:05 PM
rusted
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Reply to Ianlr:


Rusted
You may be right. I was told when i bought it from Tillys in Toowoomba that it was a D5B. When i looked it up on the Richie wiki i saw that my serial number 2106 was higher than what they said. The dozer does gave a decal saying Special Application. If you look at Tillys website at this moment you will see several 98Js being currently dismantled and shown as D5Bs. Having said all this is my mistake of any practical significance eg getting parts.
Ian
[quote="Ianlr"]Rusted
You may be right. I was told when i bought it from Tillys in Toowoomba that it was a D5B. When i looked it up on the Richie wiki i saw that my serial number 2106 was higher than what they said. The dozer does gave a decal saying Special Application. If you look at Tillys website at this moment you will see several 98Js being currently dismantled and shown as D5Bs. Having said all this is my mistake of any practical significance eg getting parts.
Ian[/quote]

Ian

Highest serial # I have is 98J2151 ( not necessarily right), but for sure a D5. The B series can be easily identified quickly as the panel shapes etc were changed from the original in addition to the internal updates.

As far as external attachments such as a ripper go it shouldn't make any difference, as I believe the backing plate etc is the same for both (stand to be corrected there), for anything else I'd be looking for a parts book for your serial range.
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Fri, Nov 27, 2015 6:21 PM
mrsmackpaul
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Reply to rusted:
[quote="Ianlr"]Rusted
You may be right. I was told when i bought it from Tillys in Toowoomba that it was a D5B. When i looked it up on the Richie wiki i saw that my serial number 2106 was higher than what they said. The dozer does gave a decal saying Special Application. If you look at Tillys website at this moment you will see several 98Js being currently dismantled and shown as D5Bs. Having said all this is my mistake of any practical significance eg getting parts.
Ian[/quote]

Ian

Highest serial # I have is 98J2151 ( not necessarily right), but for sure a D5. The B series can be easily identified quickly as the panel shapes etc were changed from the original in addition to the internal updates.

As far as external attachments such as a ripper go it shouldn't make any difference, as I believe the backing plate etc is the same for both (stand to be corrected there), for anything else I'd be looking for a parts book for your serial range.
Ian being a special application crawler it might only have a low volume pump Old Magnet will no doubt be able to check that off your serial number for you
and yes Old Magnet is 100% correct in does the ram or rams hold the scoop or do they drift

some more thoughts maybe being a SA crawler I assume came from the Downs it may have had a flow diverter valve put on for a air seeder and and you need to open that up to increase the oil flow

Paul
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Sat, Nov 28, 2015 2:25 AM
Ianlr
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Reply to mrsmackpaul:
Ian being a special application crawler it might only have a low volume pump Old Magnet will no doubt be able to check that off your serial number for you
and yes Old Magnet is 100% correct in does the ram or rams hold the scoop or do they drift

some more thoughts maybe being a SA crawler I assume came from the Downs it may have had a flow diverter valve put on for a air seeder and and you need to open that up to increase the oil flow

Paul
[quote="mrsmackpaul"]Ian being a special application crawler it might only have a low volume pump Old Magnet will no doubt be able to check that off your serial number for you
and yes Old Magnet is 100% correct in does the ram or rams hold the scoop or do they drift

some more thoughts maybe being a SA crawler I assume came from the Downs it may have had a flow diverter valve put on for a air seeder and and you need to open that up to increase the oil flow

Paul[/quote]

Paul
When i first saw it i thought it must have been a blacksoil tractor as the tracks and sprockets were in such good order. It also had extra lights on the front. Hastings Deering told me it was originally sold to a Lockyer Valley farmer. I found a sticker label on the air precleaner from a Dalby company. Tillys wouldnt tell me who sold it to them. So your thought about the air seeder is worth following up. The other thought is also worth pursuing. I was initially confused looking at at parts, maintenance and operation manuals where reference was made to a hydraulic oil tank under the bonnet at the rear of the engine. I couldnt find the tank and only after looking at other manuals specifically for special application dozers did i find detail about the shared transmission, steering clutches and external hydraulics. I will look again to see if there is a different flow rate and pressure for SA dozers.
Ian
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Sat, Nov 28, 2015 3:06 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to Ianlr:
[quote="mrsmackpaul"]Ian being a special application crawler it might only have a low volume pump Old Magnet will no doubt be able to check that off your serial number for you
and yes Old Magnet is 100% correct in does the ram or rams hold the scoop or do they drift

some more thoughts maybe being a SA crawler I assume came from the Downs it may have had a flow diverter valve put on for a air seeder and and you need to open that up to increase the oil flow

Paul[/quote]

Paul
When i first saw it i thought it must have been a blacksoil tractor as the tracks and sprockets were in such good order. It also had extra lights on the front. Hastings Deering told me it was originally sold to a Lockyer Valley farmer. I found a sticker label on the air precleaner from a Dalby company. Tillys wouldnt tell me who sold it to them. So your thought about the air seeder is worth following up. The other thought is also worth pursuing. I was initially confused looking at at parts, maintenance and operation manuals where reference was made to a hydraulic oil tank under the bonnet at the rear of the engine. I couldnt find the tank and only after looking at other manuals specifically for special application dozers did i find detail about the shared transmission, steering clutches and external hydraulics. I will look again to see if there is a different flow rate and pressure for SA dozers.
Ian
Any of that old Cletrac era stuff is going to be low pressure high volume hydraulics like 650 - 1000 psi max. The 98J (special application) with built in hydraulics and designated pump is going to be higher pressure, probably in the 2250 psi range. I don't have the service manual for the 98J, just the parts manual for 98J1591-up.
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Sat, Nov 28, 2015 4:26 AM
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