Price the D4 Cat! (Please hurry as I have to decide.)

jfirebaugh

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Gentleman, I’m a ACMOC Member who has been shopping for a clean D4 6U (Narrow Gauge) for over a year now. Today I inspected a very sweet 1953 model, S/N 6U8430. Below are the details of my inspection. Please tell me what a fair price would be for a California Narrow Gauge D4!

1953 Narrow (44” wide gauge)😊
Cat 44 Hydraulics with Nose Guard.
Original CAT Single Spool Hydraulic Valve with an owner added selector valve to operate either the Blade or the Rippers one-at-a-time.😕
Cat 4S Straight Blade, very clean and straight except for one small dent in its center area. Blade Pivot Points seem to not be too sloppy.

Unknown make of two ram hydraulic Ripper Bar with 3 of 5 shanks installed. (Replaces the Cat Drawbar due to its installation) The Ripper Frame also covered the rear Serial Number Plate from view.
Has both lower engine side guards with some small “tears”. The Hood is straight but not a Cat Brand Hood. (Needs a replacement: How much $???)😮
Home-made ROPS bolted to the fenders. (Its gotta go. 😊 )
Has the “heavy” (ribbed) Rock Guards over the lower (four) Rollers.😊

Undercarriage Specs:

Pins and Bushings have NOT been turned. Rear Sprockets look real good with flat areas on the “points”.😄
The 5 Rail Link measurement is 27.25” which I calculate to be 41% wear - 59% remaining.😊
The Rail Height is at 3.5781” or about 34% wear - 66% remaining.😊
The Grousers are the worst as they have had bars welded on them but the Grouser pads are worn where the overlap with the next pad. (What’s the current cost of new Narrow Gauge Grouser Pads for both sides???)😞
FYI: The distance from the Front Idler Axle center to the front of the Track Rail is 6.25”.

Both Motor’s:😄 😄 😄
The Electric Start Pony starts well and runs smooth once choked properly.
The main engine oil pressure comes up quickly while the Pony is turning over the main before it has been started. Then the Oil Pressure is even higher with the diesel engine running at idle.
The Diesel engine starts up easily with only some initial start-up smoke then literally purrs at idle. During the entire demo the engine never smoked or spewed oily spots, it ran so smooth and sounded very sweet. (It has a rain flapper and a muffler.)

The Clutches and Brakes responded to all inputs and all gears worked well – forward and reverse.
The owner has had it 2 years to build 2 house pads but never changed the oil. The Radiator water is clear with signs of having 50% Glycol added.
The fan belt seems a little loose.
There are no lights😞
Paint (saw two layers in some places) and Seat Covers are good with the side seat pads being present.
One 1.5” wide dent in the back of the Seat Tank Metal. Both Fenders are straight; however both have bolt holes added for the homemade ROPS.
Decals are present but some are wrong like on the Hood Sides.
All Hydraulic Cylinders are leak free and the chrome is very good.
There is some dried oil/dust staining on the bottom side of the Hydraulic Pump/Reservoir Guard.
Minimal small rust spots as one would expect in California. The Paint is generally good.

SO……. What is this Cat worth???

P.S. It will cost me about $750 bucks to have it moveed the 44 miles to my house. (Diesel out here is over $5.00 a gallon now!!!)

The main negative not to buy this Cat is that this D4 is too heavy for my new 14K Tilt Bed Trailer!! I figure the Dozer with the rippers and ROPS is about 14,000 pounds, so I couldn't take to ACMOC shows like the BSOT!!! Maybe I should start looking for a nice late model D2!!!😕
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Thu, Jun 5, 2008 1:29 PM

7upuller

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Hey J,

Why does a 14,000 pound Cat on a 14,000 pound tilt bed bother you? It looks like a nice Cat.-glen

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Thu, Jun 5, 2008 2:04 PM

Old Magnet

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Reply to 7upuller:

Hey J,

Why does a 14,000 pound Cat on a 14,000 pound tilt bed bother you? It looks like a nice Cat.-glen

Worth😊 😊 is what you are willing to pay.
Estimate (sight unseen)
$3,500 to $4,500 basic tractor as described.
Add $1,500 for complete blade attachment.
Add $750 for ripper/scarifier (if well built)

Negotiate shipping with seller, they will often split cost depending on agreed price.

I payed $4,500 for a 1956 6U several years ago. It was a very well maintained unit needing nothing. Came with single valve #44 hydraulics and factory direct electric start. There are some real maneuvering advantages to the 6U that the 7U doesn't provide in dozer form.

Good luck with your purchase.

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Thu, Jun 5, 2008 9:48 PM

jfirebaugh

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Reply to 7upuller:

Hey J,

Why does a 14,000 pound Cat on a 14,000 pound tilt bed bother you? It looks like a nice Cat.-glen

[quote="7upuller"]Hey J,

Why does a 14,000 pound Cat on a 14,000 pound tilt bed bother you? It looks like a nice Cat.-glen[/quote]

Glen,

Because I'm overly cautious?😮 The trailer is one month old and I don’t really want to “bend” anything! With the weight of the trailer at about 3,700 lbs. I figure that would be over gross by 3,500 to 4,000 lbs. Also I’m guessing that a CHP overweight ticket wouldn’t be cheap?

Hey Guys, back to my first questions: 1.What’s a fair price? 2. How much is a full set of Narrow Grouser Pads, Cat Hood??? THANKS!!!

John

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Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:04 PM

Catmatt

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Reply to jfirebaugh:

[quote="7upuller"]Hey J,

Why does a 14,000 pound Cat on a 14,000 pound tilt bed bother you? It looks like a nice Cat.-glen[/quote]

Glen,

Because I'm overly cautious?😮 The trailer is one month old and I don’t really want to “bend” anything! With the weight of the trailer at about 3,700 lbs. I figure that would be over gross by 3,500 to 4,000 lbs. Also I’m guessing that a CHP overweight ticket wouldn’t be cheap?

Hey Guys, back to my first questions: 1.What’s a fair price? 2. How much is a full set of Narrow Grouser Pads, Cat Hood??? THANKS!!!

John

Why buy a machine you can't haul with your trailer? Be patient and a smaller machine will come up forsale which you can transport with your trailer!

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Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:22 PM

jfirebaugh

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Reply to jfirebaugh:

[quote="7upuller"]Hey J,

Why does a 14,000 pound Cat on a 14,000 pound tilt bed bother you? It looks like a nice Cat.-glen[/quote]

Glen,

Because I'm overly cautious?😮 The trailer is one month old and I don’t really want to “bend” anything! With the weight of the trailer at about 3,700 lbs. I figure that would be over gross by 3,500 to 4,000 lbs. Also I’m guessing that a CHP overweight ticket wouldn’t be cheap?

Hey Guys, back to my first questions: 1.What’s a fair price? 2. How much is a full set of Narrow Grouser Pads, Cat Hood??? THANKS!!!

John

Old Magnet,

I was hoping you would reply as I know you know your stuff from reading your many posts.

Yes the Ripper looks to be professionally built and is made of about 1/2" or 3/4" formed plate on the mounting end. Nothing homemade in my view! The Shanks could be a little longer, but that's no biggie.

So, minus the home built ROPS your estimate puts the D4 at $5750 to $6750. His initial asking price is at $6900, but he said he has some wiggle room.

Oh Boy! What to do .... what to do!!!😕

JF

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Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:22 PM

trucker1

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Reply to jfirebaugh:

[quote="7upuller"]Hey J,

Why does a 14,000 pound Cat on a 14,000 pound tilt bed bother you? It looks like a nice Cat.-glen[/quote]

Glen,

Because I'm overly cautious?😮 The trailer is one month old and I don’t really want to “bend” anything! With the weight of the trailer at about 3,700 lbs. I figure that would be over gross by 3,500 to 4,000 lbs. Also I’m guessing that a CHP overweight ticket wouldn’t be cheap?

Hey Guys, back to my first questions: 1.What’s a fair price? 2. How much is a full set of Narrow Grouser Pads, Cat Hood??? THANKS!!!

John

A 14,000 lb rated trailer will carry 14,000lb, it has nothing to do with the tare weight of the trailer. That would be figured into the registered gross vehicle weight. If your trailer weighs 3700 lbs, added to the 14,000 load equals 17,700, you would need a truck to pull it rated for that much weight, add the weight of the truck to give you gross combined weight. If you bend something on a 14 k rated trailer hauling 14k, it is time to talk to the manufacturer about warrantee.

George

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Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:23 PM

Old Magnet

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Reply to trucker1:

A 14,000 lb rated trailer will carry 14,000lb, it has nothing to do with the tare weight of the trailer. That would be figured into the registered gross vehicle weight. If your trailer weighs 3700 lbs, added to the 14,000 load equals 17,700, you would need a truck to pull it rated for that much weight, add the weight of the truck to give you gross combined weight. If you bend something on a 14 k rated trailer hauling 14k, it is time to talk to the manufacturer about warrantee.

George

You'll have to do your own shopping on grousers. Try Berco dealer or Regal if they have them but I'd estimate somewhere around $25 each (62 of them).
Nothing wrong with worn ends of grouser plates and replacing grouser bars providing they are not so thin that they are bent.

Hoods....anywhere from $50 to $300

I'm pretty sure he won't have any problem selling for my estimated price but $6,900 might be a little stretch. None of them are perfect.......ya snooze....ya loose😄 😄

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Thu, Jun 5, 2008 10:33 PM

jfirebaugh

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Reply to trucker1:

A 14,000 lb rated trailer will carry 14,000lb, it has nothing to do with the tare weight of the trailer. That would be figured into the registered gross vehicle weight. If your trailer weighs 3700 lbs, added to the 14,000 load equals 17,700, you would need a truck to pull it rated for that much weight, add the weight of the truck to give you gross combined weight. If you bend something on a 14 k rated trailer hauling 14k, it is time to talk to the manufacturer about warrantee.

George

[quote="trucker1"]A 14,000 lb rated trailer will carry 14,000lb, it has nothing to do with the tare weight of the trailer. That would be figured into the registered gross vehicle weight. If your trailer weighs 3700 lbs, added to the 14,000 load equals 17,700, you would need a truck to pull it rated for that much weight, add the weight of the truck to give you gross combined weight. If you bend something on a 14 k rated trailer hauling 14k, it is time to talk to the manufacturer about warrantee.

George[/quote]

George,

Well, it's a Bumper Pull 20' Tilt Bed rated at 14K! Here's a photo.
My tow vehicle is a 2003 Dodge Cummins 3/4 ton (4x4) with a Manual Trans.

John
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Thu, Jun 5, 2008 11:22 PM

firpitch

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Reply to Old Magnet:

You'll have to do your own shopping on grousers. Try Berco dealer or Regal if they have them but I'd estimate somewhere around $25 each (62 of them).
Nothing wrong with worn ends of grouser plates and replacing grouser bars providing they are not so thin that they are bent.

Hoods....anywhere from $50 to $300

I'm pretty sure he won't have any problem selling for my estimated price but $6,900 might be a little stretch. None of them are perfect.......ya snooze....ya loose😄 😄

What you got to ask yourself is how am I going to feel if I let this go and don't see as good of a machine for many years. I tend to err on the side of get it while you can, so don't ask my wife this question. If you buy this one and your dream 2 comes along you could be smart and sell the 4 or be dumb like me and start looking for a D-6. I would have no problem hauling this machine on the trailer you described as long as the tow vehicle is up to handling it. Don't want the tail wagging the dog. You also my be much happier with the work that you do with the 4 vs. the 2 but I don't want to start that fight.

firpitch

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Thu, Jun 5, 2008 11:34 PM

Old Magnet

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Reply to firpitch:

What you got to ask yourself is how am I going to feel if I let this go and don't see as good of a machine for many years. I tend to err on the side of get it while you can, so don't ask my wife this question. If you buy this one and your dream 2 comes along you could be smart and sell the 4 or be dumb like me and start looking for a D-6. I would have no problem hauling this machine on the trailer you described as long as the tow vehicle is up to handling it. Don't want the tail wagging the dog. You also my be much happier with the work that you do with the 4 vs. the 2 but I don't want to start that fight.

firpitch

Don't want to sound like a salesman here but the D4 dozer with the ripper is an ideal combination.....especially on a 6U that is limited to narrow grousers. The D4 will not bite into virgin hard dirt and make it move without ripping/scarifying first. Just doesn't have enough weight to do it although there is no problem spinning the tracks. Otherwise the D4/D2 dozers are no more than scratch dozers. Scratch away long enough and you'll get it done but forget about efficiency. You can forget about grading with a D2, the tool bar units being the worst.

If you can or want to...post a picture of the ripper/scarifier.....it may even be a Cat unit....pirated from the HT4 or early 955 loaders which had them as attachments.

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Thu, Jun 5, 2008 11:48 PM

Price the D4 Cat! (Please hurry as I have to decide.)

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