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Pony won't start. Not pinion at all.

Pony won't start. Not pinion at all.

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coleman396
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Hey guys, how are you?

So, I have to apologize and at the same time thank everyone for the help they offered. This is certainly an educational experience buy my first old Cat. Previously I wrote that I believed the pinion was causing me grief by sticking and not letting the pony start.

I think the big problem is that the pony has some crap in the gas tank and now the carb won't allow it to get the gas it needs to start. Strange part though is if I shoot gas directly into the combustion chambers or cylinders it still won't start. Not even for a minute. There is plenty of compression and the spark looks strong. I pulled the front half of the carb off and cleaned it out. Also removed the tank. Flushed it out and blew the gas line out. It seems to be building up a bit of gas in one cylinder as I can actually drain a bit from the head after leaving the gas turned on for a while. The other side seems dry though.

The side where I actually drain and see gas come out is also the down grade side as the Cat is sitting on a bit of a slope. I have pulled that rope as much as I would like to in a lifetime. I wonder if the back half of the carb might be the problem. I am lost when it comes to this stuff apparently......lol. I have been doing some reading about cleaning the carb and see someone mentioning taking the little plugs out of the carb. How does a guy get them out without damaging anything. Also,once they are out how do you or what do you replace them with? Will soaking the carb body in some proper carb cleaner be okay once disassembled or will that require a carb kit? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!
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Mon, Jun 30, 2014 10:22 PM
Norm R2,22
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I've heard it said that 90% of carb problems are electrical. If it doesn't fire with gas squirted in the carb, check to see if spark is going to the correct cylinder. You might try swapping the wires.
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Mon, Jun 30, 2014 11:02 PM
neil
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Reply to Norm R2,22:
I've heard it said that 90% of carb problems are electrical. If it doesn't fire with gas squirted in the carb, check to see if spark is going to the correct cylinder. You might try swapping the wires.
Heh, nice one Norm - I'll have to remember that one : )
Coleman - like Norm writes, sounds like your plug wires might need swapping because a good spark should give you some sort of reaction with a bit of gas down the carb throat.
For cleaning, those plugs are lead so come out quite easily. Just use a small drill to carefully loosen them up, and then once you pick them out, run a smaller drill bit up the passages to positively clean them (some members soaked in carb cleaner but found that some of the crust didn't come out. A good tactic is to get a kit from someone like Roberts Carb (get the TU-31x kit that they offer - it has the same parts and gaskets). Be careful with tightening screws as the float chamber side is pot metal. For the main jet, I filed down a Phillips so that the center helped keep the screwdriver correctly situated in to avoid blowing out the side. Check the compensating jet inlet in the bottom of the fuel bowl - frequently found to be gummed up. Careful with the jet that crosses the throttle body - ideally remove that before undoing the two 1/4 bolts that attach the bowl to the throttle body. Idle port plug on the side of the throttle body just under the closed throttle plate must be installed with the notch below the closed throttle plate - ignore the orientation of the "bar" on the outside of that plug. To remove, drive into the throttle body. Inside edge is flush when installed. I'll see if I can find my carb manual to attach - send a PM with your email and I'll send it - zipped it's 8MB

Replace drilled-out lead plugs with bb pellets - just smash them in there with a small hammer. Some folks epoxied theirs - I didn't and mine don't leak.
If one cylinder floods with gas and the other doesn't, check the intake manifold for rodent nesting.
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Mon, Jun 30, 2014 11:28 PM
coleman396
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Thanks a bunch guys. Today I pulled the gas tank again and traced all the logical steps such as blowing out the gas lines etc. Checked the float bowl and it was about 1/3 or slightly more with gas. I hope that level is right.

QWent into the magneto and inspected and lightly cleaned the points. Swapped out the condensor while I was in there and checked the mag for being wet etc. Rotor and cap looked good so I put it back together. End result is that I still have spark so at least I haven't buggered that up. Spark, compression, fuel, air. Hmmm.....should go but perhaps if that clutch drag is too high I might have to do something.

The main is not moving at all when pulling the pony over. I guess I might have to try to locate a guy with softer hands or maybe I should say more patience than myself and see if he wants to get at that carb. I am kind of frustrated that the pony was running four days ago and since then I have nearly three full days into it without any sign of a cure! Anyway, have a great evening. Thanks for the help.
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Tue, Jul 1, 2014 7:56 AM
neil
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Reply to coleman396:
Thanks a bunch guys. Today I pulled the gas tank again and traced all the logical steps such as blowing out the gas lines etc. Checked the float bowl and it was about 1/3 or slightly more with gas. I hope that level is right.

QWent into the magneto and inspected and lightly cleaned the points. Swapped out the condensor while I was in there and checked the mag for being wet etc. Rotor and cap looked good so I put it back together. End result is that I still have spark so at least I haven't buggered that up. Spark, compression, fuel, air. Hmmm.....should go but perhaps if that clutch drag is too high I might have to do something.

The main is not moving at all when pulling the pony over. I guess I might have to try to locate a guy with softer hands or maybe I should say more patience than myself and see if he wants to get at that carb. I am kind of frustrated that the pony was running four days ago and since then I have nearly three full days into it without any sign of a cure! Anyway, have a great evening. Thanks for the help.
Coleman, update your profile with your location because a local member will be able to help you get it sorted out.
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Tue, Jul 1, 2014 8:52 AM
ronm
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Reply to coleman396:
Thanks a bunch guys. Today I pulled the gas tank again and traced all the logical steps such as blowing out the gas lines etc. Checked the float bowl and it was about 1/3 or slightly more with gas. I hope that level is right.

QWent into the magneto and inspected and lightly cleaned the points. Swapped out the condensor while I was in there and checked the mag for being wet etc. Rotor and cap looked good so I put it back together. End result is that I still have spark so at least I haven't buggered that up. Spark, compression, fuel, air. Hmmm.....should go but perhaps if that clutch drag is too high I might have to do something.

The main is not moving at all when pulling the pony over. I guess I might have to try to locate a guy with softer hands or maybe I should say more patience than myself and see if he wants to get at that carb. I am kind of frustrated that the pony was running four days ago and since then I have nearly three full days into it without any sign of a cure! Anyway, have a great evening. Thanks for the help.
Try new spark plugs before you get into anything more complicated...this crap they call gasoline nowadays will foul a plug so bad once it gets wet it will never fire again.
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Tue, Jul 1, 2014 10:28 AM
ccjersey
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If the oil has gasoline in it. Drain it and refill. Only takes a quart. It can make a difference.

AND.......never turn off the mag switch again........always stop the pony by shutting off the gas valve and let it burn the carb bowl dry. I usually idle it down some after the diesel sterts and then turn off the gas valve.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Tue, Jul 1, 2014 10:41 AM
drujinin
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Reply to ccjersey:
If the oil has gasoline in it. Drain it and refill. Only takes a quart. It can make a difference.

AND.......never turn off the mag switch again........always stop the pony by shutting off the gas valve and let it burn the carb bowl dry. I usually idle it down some after the diesel sterts and then turn off the gas valve.
Change the plugs, get a longer rope and a "Stocky" fellow to pull it!
I too have seen gas pour out of petcocks, then they start right after or NOT!
Agree that for some strange reason, this engine is one that pouring gas or squirting ETHER in doesn't seem to help with starting??
I am by no means a stocky person, when I start my 5J, I stand on the Dozer Frame, reach in to the end of the rope, Pull as I step back off the frame to get the momentum into the rope!(which is also why I put Synthetic in every Fall, in case of Winter need)
One Winter, I remember on the D6, it was being spastic, we took a Briggs 5hp and a long belt. Belted it up to crank start the Pony!
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Tue, Jul 1, 2014 6:46 PM
neil
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Reply to drujinin:
Change the plugs, get a longer rope and a "Stocky" fellow to pull it!
I too have seen gas pour out of petcocks, then they start right after or NOT!
Agree that for some strange reason, this engine is one that pouring gas or squirting ETHER in doesn't seem to help with starting??
I am by no means a stocky person, when I start my 5J, I stand on the Dozer Frame, reach in to the end of the rope, Pull as I step back off the frame to get the momentum into the rope!(which is also why I put Synthetic in every Fall, in case of Winter need)
One Winter, I remember on the D6, it was being spastic, we took a Briggs 5hp and a long belt. Belted it up to crank start the Pony!
Just to show how idiosyncratic these engines are, unlike the other guys, my pony starts with just a light tug on the rope - that's definitely the exception though. Mind you, that's after "extensive" fiddling with it to get it just so. I'll be interested to see how long it stays in that easy-starting condition!
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Tue, Jul 1, 2014 7:30 PM
Canuckd2
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Reply to neil:
Just to show how idiosyncratic these engines are, unlike the other guys, my pony starts with just a light tug on the rope - that's definitely the exception though. Mind you, that's after "extensive" fiddling with it to get it just so. I'll be interested to see how long it stays in that easy-starting condition!
Coleman 396, Where in B.C. are you, I am in Squamish, have a couple D2- 5Us, Change the plugs out, try Ngk AB 6s, Autolite also works, had bad luck with champion, If I can help in any way give me a shout, P/s I use 100 LL Avgas. Ken
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Tue, Jul 1, 2014 10:53 PM
coleman396
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Reply to Canuckd2:
Coleman 396, Where in B.C. are you, I am in Squamish, have a couple D2- 5Us, Change the plugs out, try Ngk AB 6s, Autolite also works, had bad luck with champion, If I can help in any way give me a shout, P/s I use 100 LL Avgas. Ken
Hi Ken. My Cat is a d2 serial 5u6782. I am in Houston now. Actually I lived in Pemberton for seven years and Squamish for one year. That was back in the day when there was a lot of logging going on around there. We might even know some of the same people. Happy Canada Day!
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Tue, Jul 1, 2014 11:03 PM
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