Pony motor start

Speaking of pony motors, I found a D4 7U converted to electric start, but haven't seen it in person yet. The seller says he gives it a shot of ether and it starts right up. How bad is a modest amount of ether to the diesel? It seems every diesel I ever saw on the farm growing up used a shot of ether. I agree that warming the diesel with the pony motor is probably a lot better for the engine, but do small shots of ether really risk any damage?

seems like they would want to wait at least til the oil pressure comes up good.

I don't know anything about ether, but I have a 2 cylinder China diesel generator for power outages, which seem to occur only when its 20 below. I take the air cleaner off and hold a propane torch flame over the intake and it starts right up. if it's real cold I have to leave the torch over the intake to keep it running for awhile til it can go on its own.

greengiant,

I have never heard of using a torch to heat the air going into an engine. Makes sense but all new to me. Good idea!

Now I need a cold day in Southern CA to try it out 😊

JanM

Ive seen guys use a rag soaked in gas wrapped around the air cleaner if ether wasn't available.

Biggastractor

One of my D6 9U was converted to DE without glow plugs; I usually spin motor with compression release opened for 15-30 seconds at most when cold; I should probably check the oil pressure first, anyhow, I will give it a very minuscule whiff of Johnson's Starting fluid ( mainly propane per the label)and open throttle and close compression. Presto, fires right off.
Speaking of pony motors: at SM this year, it was like Murphys Law; every pony start tractor I had was acting up. Talk about embarrassing, as I would see people gather around whispering to their wives or friends the procedure on what was supposed to be happening; gosh darn it if ALL of them were reluctant to start; some would comment that I didn't know what I was doing, etc.....BUT I was really impressed by the number of folks running at me offering to share the largest spray cans of ETHER I have ever seen in my life!
Yikes! No that's okay thank you, as one feller was shooting the whole can 15 feet from the tractor, yelling " it's okay! I have a whole case of it, we can make it run!" Umm, that's okay...... I can start it with the pony, it's just cold and temperamental.... LOL. I swear I never got the guys name, and I am sure he meant well, but if you saw the look he had, pleading to show me that he was ambidextrous as well, one can in each hand! Something tells me I would have bent all the rods and valves on my 8U. Yikes.

I used to have starting problems as well with my rope start version. Made a portable (I have two rope starts) with a shaft style 12v starter motor mounted onto an angle iron frame. Face plate out of a scrap of aluminum with rubber gasketed bolts with stacked washers for jumper cable connects. Back side has fuse and starter solenoid with a toggle switch next to the cable lugs wired in. Once the pony kicks in (almost instantly), I cock the frame a little to "walk" the belt off the pony flywheel, unclamp (jumper cables and c-clamp) the starter and put in back of truck. By then the pony has warmed up the main and achieved oil/fuel pressure and kabang! Off and running. If main doesn't kick in, or if pony dies, a half tug of the rope in the toolbox and the pony starts right up.

On my cat 12/ 1949,,on a 50f day I can run my pony for 5 minutes under compression and the engine won't fire. I have a port right on the intake manifold. Slight shot of start fluid and it fires right off. Lots of power and little blow by. Have not checked injector timing yet. No crackle on fire up.

I have never used starter fluid with a D2. Not needed and a very bad practice. A tight diesel will start quickly on a warm day with no starter fluid. On a cold day you may need to turn it over a minute or two before it will start, again without starter fluid.
Always leave the compression lever off compression until the diesel oil pressure comes up. Then flip it to compression and let it spin for a bit with diesel throttle all the way closed. Then throttle up the diesel and see if it will pop. If you have the pony pinion adjusted correctly it should not kick out until the diesel starts. If the pinion is not adjusted correct it might kick out early, requiring you to idle the pony so you can pull on the pony pinion clutch brake and then pull up on the pinion lever so it latches again.

I believe that a pony start machine will last way longer than a machine converted to electric start. Having a pony allows the diesel to have the oil pressure up before you flip on compression. Just seems better for the main bearings. And you aren't messing with batteries.

Over the past 20 years of working on D2's I have found that the jet in the bottom of the carb bowl getting clogged is the main problem regarding no start. Or poor running after start. That and a damp magneto or faulty points in the mag.

If you have to choke the heck out of the pony to keep it running then the jet in the bottom of the carb bowl is most likely clogged.

If you have no spark from the mag it is either damp, a bad condenser, dirty points or bad coil. You can bench test a mag and it should pop a blue spark from plug wire to mag body when you spin the mag drive gear.

If the pony starts cold, but then will not spark when hot, most likely the coil is bad and failing when hot.

I have found pony valves stuck open on some pony motors on machines I have dragged home. You won't be getting compression on that cylinder.

I have found the mag gear installed 180 degrees out causing no start.

You keep your pony tuned and you can walk out in the bitter cold of winter and it will start on the second or third pull of the rope.

In my research and experience, ether is mostly a problem with IDI (pre-chamber) type diesels with high compression. Low compression DI engines are generally OK. Many vintage tractors had "etherizers" on them from the factory as an option, my Farmall 826 included (Neuss/IH D35😎. It certainly fits my earlier definition, with a 16:1 CR and direct injection. I don't use it, preferring to use a block heater to warm the engine up enough so it starts. I don't need that tractor when it's cold, using it only for the heavy work that happens in warmer weather.

Going back to the IDI engine, the ether is a problem for two reasons: One, the ether doesn't mix well in the chamber and forms pockets, where the explosive force can get concentrated in a small area and cause damage. Reason two is the high compression ratio (20:1 and up), which can cause the mixture to ignite too far ahead of TDC and you get the diesel version of pre-ignition that's hard on piston crowns and head gaskets.

Way back in the '90s, I had a GM 6.2 Blazer and was wheeling up near Leadville, CO, which is at 10K feet or above (depending on the trail). Camped out. Went to start one morning and the notoriously unreliable glow plug controller had fried at some point the day before, stuck on, and fried all my glow plugs. I deliberately didn't carry ether in that truck so as not to be tempted to use it with a nearly 22:1 CR (plus if you have a glow plug working with it... watch out!) and a fairly weak engine. It was 25 degrees that morning. I waited (and held up my group) as long as possible to let it warm up a bit, but eventually I started cranking. No go. Finally, I had another rig hooked up via jumpers to keep it cranking in the hopes of generating enough head to get it fired. I would have used a touch of ether at that point but was the only diesel in the group. A guy said, "Hey, my uncle used WD-40 on his diesels sometimes!" I tried it... instant success. It was just enough but not too much. It didn't hammer like either does in IDIs either. Have used it a few times since on IDIs. Have used ether too.. and you can get away with it if you are careful about the amount. Seems to me WD-40 is a little safer but maybe not as effective. I tried some in my DI Farmall once at about 15F just to see and it didn't work so well. With either, it fired right up.

Finally, there isn't much ether in ether these days. No they are mostly butane or heptane, with just a touch of ether. That tones them down a bit, making them less effective I suppose, but preventing abuse by "rag passers" (the old term for people who would shoot it into a rag and pass it around to get high).