ACMOC
Login
ACMOC
Pony Motor Problems

Pony Motor Problems

Showing 1 to 10 of 16 results
1
Bennett53
Topic Author
Offline
Member
Send a private message to Bennett53
Posts: 34
Thank you received: 0
Good morning everyone and Happy New Years!

Alright time to jump in I was preparing to move my old girl (D6-8u) into the shop for some new injectors and valve cover repairs. We were coming out of a cold snap so I was making sure to turn over the main motor and get things warm before we fired off. Okay so the pony fired off like normal and was running like a champ as always. When it had warmed up, I started turning over the main it was running great! Then i released the compression relief and it acted like it was choked out so I let go over the handles let her catch her breath and then i went to re engage and she died. I went to restart and it wouldn’t turn over acted like low power which I have had trouble with the starter before not engaging the bendix. So I thought well I will just pull start it I wrapped the flywheel and went to pull the rope and it won’t budge. Needless to say I’m now slightly concerned. Well fast forward I now have it in the shop pulled the hood etc and there is some play in the flywheel not much though. However when I rock it back and forth it sounds like something is hitting. I have no experience with a seized motor so I’m not sure if it’s that or my hope is that there is a problem with the clutch. Which I know already has some problems as it will move past engagement previously. The starter pinion had to release as we pull started with a tractor. 

Thank you guys!
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sat, Jan 7, 2023 11:37 PM
trainzkid88
Offline
Member
Send a private message to trainzkid88
Location: b.berg qld
Posts: 2,246
Thank you received: 25
it didnt make any strange noises when running?
it might have bent something.
pull the magneto look for damaged teeth/bent shaft.
check the oil level
pull the pilot heads look for busted pistons and what the water galleries are like

"i reject your reality and substitute my own" - adam savage. i suspect my final words maybe "well shit, that didnt work"

instead of perfection some times we just have to accept practicality

Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sun, Jan 8, 2023 6:31 AM
neil
Offline
Moderator
Admin
Send a private message to neil
Posts: 6,933
Thank you received: 4
Reply to trainzkid88:
it didnt make any strange noises when running?
it might have bent something.
pull the magneto look for damaged teeth/bent shaft.
check the oil level
pull the pilot heads look for busted pistons and what the water galleries are like
Your comment about the clutch would indicate to me to start there. Since you pull-started the tractor, we know it's not a pinion stuck engaged issue, so that limits it to the pony motor through pinion assembly. As trainz indicated above, removing the magneto and pulling the heads are very easy to do, so do that first. Of course for the heads, you'll need to drain the coolant but that's not normally difficult, and if the pistons can move, even a little, then they're "probably" ok, and you can refill the coolant. If the magneto turns over normally by hand, and the gear turns true/doesn't indicate a bent shaft, then you can set that aside as ok. If removing the mag does not free the pony up, then you can either refit it, or leave it off in case there is an issue with the timing/cam gear train.
But then that takes us to the pinion and clutch. Could you describe what exactly happens with the clutch? Does the lever "go too far" into engagement and beyond? If so, can you return the lever back to disengaged? Even if you can, you can pull the rear (well, front") cover off the pinion clutch assembly and take a look inside and study the mechanism while operating the clutch lever. If that's where the issue is, if you're lucky you might be able to poke around and move parts back into their correct place. If you can do that, then immediately adjust the clutch to confirm that it then operates normally, and that the pinion shaft can turn over ok. Also check for end float on the pinion shaft.
Then report back here so we can see where to go next. (which might be pulling out the pinion assembly)
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Sun, Jan 8, 2023 11:12 PM
side-seat
Offline
Member
Send a private message to side-seat
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 652
Thank you received: 5
Reply to neil:
Your comment about the clutch would indicate to me to start there. Since you pull-started the tractor, we know it's not a pinion stuck engaged issue, so that limits it to the pony motor through pinion assembly. As trainz indicated above, removing the magneto and pulling the heads are very easy to do, so do that first. Of course for the heads, you'll need to drain the coolant but that's not normally difficult, and if the pistons can move, even a little, then they're "probably" ok, and you can refill the coolant. If the magneto turns over normally by hand, and the gear turns true/doesn't indicate a bent shaft, then you can set that aside as ok. If removing the mag does not free the pony up, then you can either refit it, or leave it off in case there is an issue with the timing/cam gear train.
But then that takes us to the pinion and clutch. Could you describe what exactly happens with the clutch? Does the lever "go too far" into engagement and beyond? If so, can you return the lever back to disengaged? Even if you can, you can pull the rear (well, front") cover off the pinion clutch assembly and take a look inside and study the mechanism while operating the clutch lever. If that's where the issue is, if you're lucky you might be able to poke around and move parts back into their correct place. If you can do that, then immediately adjust the clutch to confirm that it then operates normally, and that the pinion shaft can turn over ok. Also check for end float on the pinion shaft.
Then report back here so we can see where to go next. (which might be pulling out the pinion assembly)
Is the starter motor bendix on the pony motor stuck engaged? I have a tractor that sometimes bendix gets stuck engaged and it's easily disengaged by turning the flywheel backwards. It's easy to remove motor and check. Then try turning pony by hand.
Hopefully you didn't run the pony without oil. The crankshaft and connecting rods like to have oil.
Check the oil level in the diesel starter pinion clutch housing too.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Mon, Jan 9, 2023 12:06 AM
Bennett53
Topic Author
Offline
Member
Send a private message to Bennett53
Posts: 34
Thank you received: 0
Reply to side-seat:
Is the starter motor bendix on the pony motor stuck engaged? I have a tractor that sometimes bendix gets stuck engaged and it's easily disengaged by turning the flywheel backwards. It's easy to remove motor and check. Then try turning pony by hand.
Hopefully you didn't run the pony without oil. The crankshaft and connecting rods like to have oil.
Check the oil level in the diesel starter pinion clutch housing too.
Thanks everyone I haven’t had a chance to dive in I have been swamped working on the “bosses” she shed, and dad always told me happy wife happy life! Anyway i will let you guys no when I get a chance to Check some of these ideas.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Mon, Jan 9, 2023 2:00 PM
Wombat
Offline
Member
Donor
Send a private message to Wombat
Posts: 1,006
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Bennett53:
Thanks everyone I haven’t had a chance to dive in I have been swamped working on the “bosses” she shed, and dad always told me happy wife happy life! Anyway i will let you guys no when I get a chance to Check some of these ideas.
Happy wife happy life, reminds me of the other saying, happy mistress happy Christmas.

Wombat
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Mon, Jan 9, 2023 4:39 PM
Rome K/G
Offline
Send a private message to Rome K/G
Posts: 6,092
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Wombat:
Happy wife happy life, reminds me of the other saying, happy mistress happy Christmas.

Wombat
"No wife no strife!" lol
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Mon, Jan 9, 2023 8:08 PM
Bennett53
Topic Author
Offline
Member
Send a private message to Bennett53
Posts: 34
Thank you received: 0
Reply to Rome K/G:
"No wife no strife!" lol
A little update I did have oil in the pony and i haven't gotten to look at the pinion yet. Hopefully this evening! However I did notice that it already has the hole for a direct starter just need remove the bolts. I have been doing a little reading around the website and it appears that it is a least a feasible option for hot starting. I would like to fix the pony motor though as I like to have that to warm the engine and get things moving before i fire off the main. Does anyone know what parts i would need? How hard it is to add glow plugs or some type of other type of pre heater? I've looked at the delco 50mt starters i believe? Although everywhere i turned on the site here it recommends the member "Old Magnet" and their website or information. I just seem to not have a lot of luck using the search feature.

Thanks again everyone.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Tue, Jan 10, 2023 2:53 AM
bruce oz
Offline
Member
Send a private message to bruce oz
Posts: 1,343
Thank you received: 4
Reply to Bennett53:
A little update I did have oil in the pony and i haven't gotten to look at the pinion yet. Hopefully this evening! However I did notice that it already has the hole for a direct starter just need remove the bolts. I have been doing a little reading around the website and it appears that it is a least a feasible option for hot starting. I would like to fix the pony motor though as I like to have that to warm the engine and get things moving before i fire off the main. Does anyone know what parts i would need? How hard it is to add glow plugs or some type of other type of pre heater? I've looked at the delco 50mt starters i believe? Although everywhere i turned on the site here it recommends the member "Old Magnet" and their website or information. I just seem to not have a lot of luck using the search feature.

Thanks again everyone.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldmagcat/home/getting-started
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Tue, Jan 10, 2023 3:49 AM
trainzkid88
Offline
Member
Send a private message to trainzkid88
Location: b.berg qld
Posts: 2,246
Thank you received: 25
Reply to bruce oz:
https://sites.google.com/site/oldmagcat/home/getting-started
she who must be obeyed, the handbrake, finance minister, minister for war no matter what you call her when out of hearing range if she is happy or happyish life is much easier.
i swear mum has hearing like a bat. dad and i are just resigned to the fact were always in the shit it's just the depth that varies.

back to the real topic.
the minimum parts you would need set of rings, gasket set(never reuse old gaskets unless you really have too), carb kit(easy to do while you have it apart anyway), crank bushes & dowel pins, big end bearings, valve lapping paste, new governor belt, inline fuel filter(the cheap ryco one as found on many older cars with carbs), main seals

"i reject your reality and substitute my own" - adam savage. i suspect my final words maybe "well shit, that didnt work"

instead of perfection some times we just have to accept practicality

Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Tue, Jan 10, 2023 6:07 PM
Bennett53
Topic Author
Offline
Member
Send a private message to Bennett53
Posts: 34
Thank you received: 0
Reply to trainzkid88:
she who must be obeyed, the handbrake, finance minister, minister for war no matter what you call her when out of hearing range if she is happy or happyish life is much easier.
i swear mum has hearing like a bat. dad and i are just resigned to the fact were always in the shit it's just the depth that varies.

back to the real topic.
the minimum parts you would need set of rings, gasket set(never reuse old gaskets unless you really have too), carb kit(easy to do while you have it apart anyway), crank bushes & dowel pins, big end bearings, valve lapping paste, new governor belt, inline fuel filter(the cheap ryco one as found on many older cars with carbs), main seals
Haha many great responses....I did get to dive in a little last night and there is more play in the flywheel then i originally thought, this is leading me to believe its not seized. My plan is to pull the magneto tonight, when i was rotating it back and forth with the minimal play it sounds like something is hitting in there. The biggest thing im having right now is getting everything cleaned so I don't pull and let dirt in. I've been blowing everything off however im thinking to pull it out of the shop this weekend even if its freezing and giver her a good bath. I think I can pull it out fairly easy I'm just not sure if my tractor will have the guts to push it back in....but im going to give it a try. Second question it occurred to me last night i was reading up on the electric start conversion that for a long time dad and grandpa were using 12v to start the pony. Could this have damaged the magneto and the starter?
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Wed, Jan 11, 2023 1:27 AM
Showing 1 to 10 of 16 results
1
YouTube Video Placeholder

Follow Us on Social Media

Our channel highlights machines from the earliest Holt and Best track-type tractors, equipment from the start of Caterpillar in 1925, up to units built in the mid-1960s.

Upcoming Events

Wheatlands Warracknabeal Easter Rally

Chapter Nineteen

| 34 Henty Hwy, Warracknabeal

Veerkamp Open House 2025

Chapter Fifteen

| Placerville, CA

Stradsett Park Vintage Rally

Chapter Two

| Stradsett, Nr Downham Market. Norfolk PE33 9HA UK
View Calendar
ACMOC

Antique Caterpillar
Machinery Owners Club

1115 Madison St NE # 1117
Salem, OR 97301

[email protected]

Terms & Privacy
Website developed by AdCo

Testimonials

"I also joined a year ago. had been on here a couple of times as a non-member and found the info very helpful so I got a one year subscription (not very expensive at all) to try it out. I really like all the resources on here so I just got a three year. I think its a very small price for what you can get out of this site."
-Jason N

Join Today!