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Oil Pump Substitutions for 70D3819

Oil Pump Substitutions for 70D3819

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raklet
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I think I need an oil pump for my 70D Motor grader, but let me describe why I think that and then maybe you can tell me whether I really do or not. I pulled the pump apart to check it and found scoring in the walls of the main body assembly. The scoring is not very deep but it is visible and can be felt as slight grooving when a finger is run over it. Also the gears show little nicks in the teeth. I'm sure bearing material or other foreign matter has gone through the pump in order to cause this, but how much wear is acceptable before the pump is no good? Is there a way to test the pump output / pressure without putting it back in the machine and needing the whole engine assembled?

Assuming I need a new pump - the model specific pump is Assembly 5H7390, but I cannot find one anywhere. I have called Weller Tractor, Portland Tractor, Norcan Tractor, Camcat Tractor, Triangle Tractor, General Gear and Machine, Utah Track and Welding, Phillips Tractor, and the CAT dealer. But, the CAT dealer made the remark "too bad there aren't any more old timers in the shop because they would know what pumps would work out of completely different machines that don't even have the same part number". That made me wonder if any of you knowledgeable gents know of pumps with different part numbers from other models that would work in the 70D.

There is a an 8T 13199 down the road from me that is a parts machine. It still has its oil pump (don't know the condition of it) but would like to know if this pump would work.

If I can't locate an oil pump (complete or just the pieces that I need) what are my options? I need the main body housing 5H7398 and its two gears 7F3129 and 7F3130. Can the body be rebuilt by a competent machinist? How about the gears?

Thanks
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Fri, Sep 17, 2010 7:12 AM
ccjersey
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I would be more worried about worn keys and separator/side plates than the gears and housing. I filed and scraped the oil pump housing and gears of a D311 in our 212 grader that had ground up some roll pins which were left inside the suction bell:jaw: It was pretty rough looking, but I tried it anyway. It always had good pressure according to the standard CAT gauge.

It would take some rigging, but you could make up a test fixture that had a pressure feedback tap off the side of the outlet flow and with a valve for some restriction of the outlet to increase the pressure, the feedback tap should close down the inlet restrictor plunger and control the pressure. I expect it would take a pretty good sized drill motor or something like that to turn the pumps.

Yours has the clutch oil pump siamesed onto the main pump doesn't it? Probably pretty similar to the dozer model with the scavenge pumps pulling oil from the front and back sumps and dumping into the main sump.

Our 99E (#12 grader with the D333) was aquired in pieces after the oil pump locked up from ingesting some sheet metal locking tabs (again, aparently left inside the suction screen:jaw😊 and the #6 piston failed (scuffing from lack of lubrication I expect). A used pump we got had severe wear on the woodruff keys, the shafts and the gears. Could have just replaced all the keys, but we were able to get a new pump for about 2X what the used one had cost, so we just returned the used one.

Looked up the gears, they are the same as the D6 tractors. Body is different. I don't have any books on the 8T to check. The late 8T had the D318 and got the oil clutch after 8T16361 or there abouts. Might get lucky on the parts machine?
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Fri, Sep 17, 2010 9:10 AM
edb
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Hi raklet,
The oil clutch graders have a special 3 section oil pump as opposed to the usual 2 section used in other applications. The third section scavanges oil from the flywheel housing.
By what you describe you have normal scratches and grouves as seen from normal usage. These should not be detrimental to the full output of the pump sections as two sections are master clutch, one scavange oil, one for master clutch low pressure supply oil for cooling and lube, and only one section is full engine oil pressure as used in other applications, like the D6. Unless you need to utilise full clutch potential and abuse it it should survive on a little less than designed oil flow for these needs.
Some pix would be beneficial to help us help you.
Scan is from my MG SRM.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Fri, Sep 17, 2010 9:24 AM
raklet
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Reply to edb:
Hi raklet,
The oil clutch graders have a special 3 section oil pump as opposed to the usual 2 section used in other applications. The third section scavanges oil from the flywheel housing.
By what you describe you have normal scratches and grouves as seen from normal usage. These should not be detrimental to the full output of the pump sections as two sections are master clutch, one scavange oil, one for master clutch low pressure supply oil for cooling and lube, and only one section is full engine oil pressure as used in other applications, like the D6. Unless you need to utilise full clutch potential and abuse it it should survive on a little less than designed oil flow for these needs.
Some pix would be beneficial to help us help you.
Scan is from my MG SRM.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Attachment
Excellent advice from both. 👍 I will get some pics posted. Thanks.
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Fri, Sep 17, 2010 9:41 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to raklet:
Excellent advice from both. 👍 I will get some pics posted. Thanks.
As mentioned that pump is unique to oil clutch graders, found on
8T16361-up
70D & 71D
80C & 81C
Also on the #14 64C model.
Unfortunately some of these are low production models.
Along with the 7F3129 & 30 gears the 4F6025 separator is also the same as the D6.

Normal clearance between gears and separator plates is 0.002 to 0.004 in.
Same clearance between gears and housing although they can be tighter.

Old time rebuilt pumps I'm familiar with had the housing machined back to original finish and used oversize gears. Probably tough to duplicate now.
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Fri, Sep 17, 2010 10:26 AM
raklet
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Reply to raklet:
Excellent advice from both. 👍 I will get some pics posted. Thanks.
Here are some pics of the pump body and the gear.
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Fri, Sep 17, 2010 10:31 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to raklet:
Here are some pics of the pump body and the gear.
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Housing looks well worn....what do the clearances measure?
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Fri, Sep 17, 2010 10:44 AM
edb
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Housing looks well worn....what do the clearances measure?
Hi Team,
yes, housing and gear have what I would term normal marks from foreign material passing thru, if there is no obvious wear step in the area of the gear cavity pictured then it should be OK, even then some wear is tolerable, 0.002-0.004". If you can determine if this is one of the scavange sections then it should be of little concern as the scavange sections only transfer low pressure oil from one area to the main sump or low pressure oil supply for the master clutch itself.
Even if it were the main pressure section I would only stone off the burrs from the gear teeth and end faces and the gear cavity and reuse as is, or, if you felt something needed to be done fit up a new set of bearings and go from there.
To me it looks useable, especially in view of the rarity/cost of parts and the likely low stress use of the unit in preservation/display purposes, for full load commercial production it may still be OK. These gear pumps are fairly forgiving of gunk damage to a point. If the rest of the engine -- bearings etc -- are in good condition it should make good oil pressure at op. temp.
Just some thoughts.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Fri, Sep 17, 2010 11:54 AM
gemdozer
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Reply to edb:
Hi Team,
yes, housing and gear have what I would term normal marks from foreign material passing thru, if there is no obvious wear step in the area of the gear cavity pictured then it should be OK, even then some wear is tolerable, 0.002-0.004". If you can determine if this is one of the scavange sections then it should be of little concern as the scavange sections only transfer low pressure oil from one area to the main sump or low pressure oil supply for the master clutch itself.
Even if it were the main pressure section I would only stone off the burrs from the gear teeth and end faces and the gear cavity and reuse as is, or, if you felt something needed to be done fit up a new set of bearings and go from there.
To me it looks useable, especially in view of the rarity/cost of parts and the likely low stress use of the unit in preservation/display purposes, for full load commercial production it may still be OK. These gear pumps are fairly forgiving of gunk damage to a point. If the rest of the engine -- bearings etc -- are in good condition it should make good oil pressure at op. temp.
Just some thoughts.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
I have a oil pump 4 section and each section have a part number on 7f3121-7f3123-7f3119-4f6025
and have a 3 section 7f7237-7f3119-4f6025
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Fri, Sep 17, 2010 5:57 PM
raklet
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Reply to gemdozer:
I have a oil pump 4 section and each section have a part number on 7f3121-7f3123-7f3119-4f6025
and have a 3 section 7f7237-7f3119-4f6025
Clearances measure .003 with tight drag. I'll hang onto the pump for now. Thanks.
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Fri, Sep 17, 2010 8:25 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to raklet:
Clearances measure .003 with tight drag. I'll hang onto the pump for now. Thanks.
Might pick up a 0.001 or so if you replaced the gears. I'm thinking they would still be available as they are used in the D6. Pump capacity droops pretty good at about 0.005 .
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Fri, Sep 17, 2010 10:03 PM
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