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Oil during breakin

Oil during breakin

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cab
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Rebuilt engine on my D7 47A is giving me some concern. I have started it and let it run for maybe 10-15 minutes total while checking for leaks, shutting down, fixing a few minor leaks, starting up and checking again and so forth.

I pulled the dipstick as an afterthought after I had it shut down the other day and instead of clear and pristine, the oil looked tan and milky and was also a little below the full mark. I know you are supposed to check at idle but this worried me. Checked radiator, was full to brim with clear green antifreeze/distilled water mix, so all good there.

Checked clutch and was full to mark with clear, pristine looking oil.

Could it be that the assembly lube used in rebuild is giving engine oil this tan murky milky appearance?

I loosened drain plug on oil pan and caught a cup of oil to inspect for water. No water drops came out at all, just this tan murky oil. When you smear on your fingers it winds up feeling and looking like oil with no residue or anything unusual.

Nonetheless, after such a few minutes running time I expected it to be clear as new. I haven't even run it long enough to get temp gauge off peg. Oil pressure is great, comes up after 10 seconds or less spinning over on decompression, engine fires right up and oil pressure stays pegged entire time it is running.

As to low level, I initially carefully put 6 gals of 30wt into freshly rebuilt engine. After running a few times the dipstick was barely to full mark when shut off, and barely registering on dipstick while idling. I can't imagine it lost this much oil for the few minutes it ran. Does a fresh rebuild require more oil than an oil change, ie during an oil change does a certain amount of oil remain in lines and galleries thus requiring 6 gallons on the nose where a dry engine just rebuilt might require more?

I am a little paranoid after all the care I have taken and don't want to make a rookie mistake. Am considering draining and refilling with 6 gallons in case some hard to reach areas inside the engine didn't come completely clean thus making oil murky. It deserves to be said this engine sat open with heads off and liners and pistons out under a shed and had light surface rust all in it although I did take to machine shop for steam cleaning or whatever the term is for their cleaning procedure.

Thanks in advance for any advice on engine breakin protocol. Engine is D339, 4 cyl.
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Thu, Dec 26, 2013 10:27 AM
edb
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Hi Cab,
sounds like you are seeing some moisture left over from the cleaning process--likely in galleries and the like.
The tan colour I suspect would be rust residue you noted--from gear teeth, liners, cam lobes, oil pump and balancer drives, etc.
The engine oil volume fill for a rebuilt/new engine is more than the stated volume from the OMI as all the galleries and all internal engine surfaces are dry of oil.
The apparent lost oil is actually lost coating all the dry surfaces with a thin coating of oil, not to mention filling the galeries--even the rocker arm shaft bores--with oil as well as the oil filters and housing, the oil cooler, internal and external oil lines and so forth.
When we first fill re-built engines at the Dealer we always overfilled them and added oil as needed to get to the Full Mark on the dipstick with a warm engine.
As long as we could see we were above the ADD mark we would warm the engine and adjust as needed.
Best time to truelly check the engine and other oil levels is at the end of a days work, after the engine had idled for at least 3-5 minutes.
The First dipstick check, before engine start-up with engine cold, is mainly just to see that oil is in the engine at about 1.5" above the Full mark, as well as a look under and about the machine for any tell-tale signs of oil leakage from any oil compartments, lines, etc, for a Safe Startup.
Hope this helps some.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Thu, Dec 26, 2013 11:57 AM
ccjersey
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My Vote would be to run it enough to get it good and hot before worrying about the oil. If your engine was hot tanked or pressure washed, and then assembled with care, you are ahead of the game compared to an inframe overhaul like I did on our 48A. The only thing I do check on every engine coming back from a machine shop is to clean all oil passages with solvent and compressed air or even a brass brush (gun cleaning kit) run through everything. Had to rebuild an engine a second time because of contamination in the crankshaft oil passages and do not want to ever have that happen again.

I expect the assembly lube is responsible for the off color, but do note that diesel oil isn't going to stay clear long, especially with rings seating etc. It won't get dirty as fast as if you had just changed the oil in an engine with some hours where you never get rid of all the old oil and carbon; and the oil is simply picking up carbon which is already in the oil passages and pan etc, but the oil will get dirty pretty quickly from the excessive blow-by until the rings seat.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Thu, Dec 26, 2013 12:07 PM
fordhook
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Reply to ccjersey:
My Vote would be to run it enough to get it good and hot before worrying about the oil. If your engine was hot tanked or pressure washed, and then assembled with care, you are ahead of the game compared to an inframe overhaul like I did on our 48A. The only thing I do check on every engine coming back from a machine shop is to clean all oil passages with solvent and compressed air or even a brass brush (gun cleaning kit) run through everything. Had to rebuild an engine a second time because of contamination in the crankshaft oil passages and do not want to ever have that happen again.

I expect the assembly lube is responsible for the off color, but do note that diesel oil isn't going to stay clear long, especially with rings seating etc. It won't get dirty as fast as if you had just changed the oil in an engine with some hours where you never get rid of all the old oil and carbon; and the oil is simply picking up carbon which is already in the oil passages and pan etc, but the oil will get dirty pretty quickly from the excessive blow-by until the rings seat.
At $12.00 to $14.00 per gallon for good quality oil if you are worried about it drain it out and start over. It will be worth the peace of mind.
Also, I would recommend break in oil for the first 100 hours to make sure the rings seat into the liners. If you start out with premium oil and the rings do not seat, the engine will likely always consume some oil.

Oil capacity is probably about 7.5 gallons for your tractor engine.
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Thu, Dec 26, 2013 12:48 PM
cab
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Reply to fordhook:
At $12.00 to $14.00 per gallon for good quality oil if you are worried about it drain it out and start over. It will be worth the peace of mind.
Also, I would recommend break in oil for the first 100 hours to make sure the rings seat into the liners. If you start out with premium oil and the rings do not seat, the engine will likely always consume some oil.

Oil capacity is probably about 7.5 gallons for your tractor engine.
Great responses guys and just what I needed to hear on quantities and my concern about color. Appreciate you guys passing along lessons learned.

What is breakin oil? I only ever heard of straight 30wt being called for, but if something else makes the rings seat better i am all ears.
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Fri, Dec 27, 2013 4:41 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to cab:
Great responses guys and just what I needed to hear on quantities and my concern about color. Appreciate you guys passing along lessons learned.

What is breakin oil? I only ever heard of straight 30wt being called for, but if something else makes the rings seat better i am all ears.
Break in oil is not required or recommended.
Straight SAE 30 wt is correct.
Follow these instructions....
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Fri, Dec 27, 2013 4:53 AM
fordhook
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Break in oil is not required or recommended.
Straight SAE 30 wt is correct.
Follow these instructions....
http://www.deere.com/en_US/ag/servicesupport/tips/augusta/5000/pf_understandingoil.html

You might like to read this article from Deere Co.
This is the procedure we used on a re manufactured Deere engine replacement for a 9760 Harvester.
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Fri, Dec 27, 2013 9:05 AM
STEPHEN
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Reply to fordhook:
http://www.deere.com/en_US/ag/servicesupport/tips/augusta/5000/pf_understandingoil.html

You might like to read this article from Deere Co.
This is the procedure we used on a re manufactured Deere engine replacement for a 9760 Harvester.
[quote="fordhook"]http://www.deere.com/en_US/ag/servicesupport/tips/augusta/5000/pf_understandingoil.html

You might like to read this article from Deere Co.
This is the procedure we used on a re manufactured Deere engine replacement for a 9760 Harvester.[/quote]

thanks for the link fordhook, that was interesting reading.
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Fri, Dec 27, 2013 1:03 PM
drujinin
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Reply to STEPHEN:
[quote="fordhook"]http://www.deere.com/en_US/ag/servicesupport/tips/augusta/5000/pf_understandingoil.html

You might like to read this article from Deere Co.
This is the procedure we used on a re manufactured Deere engine replacement for a 9760 Harvester.[/quote]

thanks for the link fordhook, that was interesting reading.
In the past 5 years, I have done Startups and Load Testing on approximately 800 3500series Gensets.
Only 3 have had extensive issues with mechanical failures.
At which point the Local Distributor has in Technicians to Overhaul with me assisting.
I have asked about "Break-In" oil, CAT doesn't use it is what I am told.
There is a Blacklight compatible Dye in the oil to assist in spotting leaks but that is the only extra additive.
The oil is monitored via analysis by the Customer for issues.

Like OM says, "Breakin with what you are going to run"
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Fri, Dec 27, 2013 7:43 PM
cab
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Reply to drujinin:
In the past 5 years, I have done Startups and Load Testing on approximately 800 3500series Gensets.
Only 3 have had extensive issues with mechanical failures.
At which point the Local Distributor has in Technicians to Overhaul with me assisting.
I have asked about "Break-In" oil, CAT doesn't use it is what I am told.
There is a Blacklight compatible Dye in the oil to assist in spotting leaks but that is the only extra additive.
The oil is monitored via analysis by the Customer for issues.

Like OM says, "Breakin with what you are going to run"
Thanks for all the replies. Will keep reporting back as things develop.
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Fri, Dec 27, 2013 8:57 PM
fordhook
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Reply to cab:
Thanks for all the replies. Will keep reporting back as things develop.
I will scan and post this booklet: SEBU6250-03 February 1992

Nine pages of lubricant specifications direct from Caterpillar Co.
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Sat, Dec 28, 2013 1:22 AM
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