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More starter trouble

More starter trouble

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poor farmer/logger
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Well, I'm back sooner then i thought I'd be.😞

Went out today to start the Cat and no go. The starter engaged good and spun over good then all of a suden that was it. The starter then proceded to spin over on it's own but the pinion wasn't engaged. I fliped off the isolator switch and all was good till I fliped it on again. Batteries are unhooked now and the switch is off.

I was thinking that it's maybe in the heat/starter switch but don't know for sure. Any ideas or ways to isolate and determine what the problem is??

Thanks

Ryan
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Thu, Feb 5, 2009 4:30 AM
poor farmer/logger
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Turns out that brand new made in china solinoid that they put on is no good. When it get cold it sticks. I took a crescent wrench and tapped the end of it and then it was okay. It did it to me one more time after that though so looks like I'm gona have to tear it off and try and get some waranty. The jobs not bad but it's the 100 mile round trip that's a pain. Especially when I want to get to work.

I'm a little concerned about the turbo on it yet. It's leaked a little bit of exhaust out from around the turbo since I got it. There's a ever so slight trace amount of oil there now. Scared it's going to fly appart next.

Ryan
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Thu, Feb 5, 2009 5:47 AM
bob
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Reply to poor farmer/logger:
Turns out that brand new made in china solinoid that they put on is no good. When it get cold it sticks. I took a crescent wrench and tapped the end of it and then it was okay. It did it to me one more time after that though so looks like I'm gona have to tear it off and try and get some waranty. The jobs not bad but it's the 100 mile round trip that's a pain. Especially when I want to get to work.

I'm a little concerned about the turbo on it yet. It's leaked a little bit of exhaust out from around the turbo since I got it. There's a ever so slight trace amount of oil there now. Scared it's going to fly appart next.

Ryan
You better get your money back and tell him to get you a delco solinoid, even if it's mexican.
Later Bob
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Thu, Feb 5, 2009 6:37 AM
bluox
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Reply to poor farmer/logger:
Turns out that brand new made in china solinoid that they put on is no good. When it get cold it sticks. I took a crescent wrench and tapped the end of it and then it was okay. It did it to me one more time after that though so looks like I'm gona have to tear it off and try and get some waranty. The jobs not bad but it's the 100 mile round trip that's a pain. Especially when I want to get to work.

I'm a little concerned about the turbo on it yet. It's leaked a little bit of exhaust out from around the turbo since I got it. There's a ever so slight trace amount of oil there now. Scared it's going to fly appart next.

Ryan
Hello,
Take your batteries to to a battery shop and have them checked.A low battery will burn contacts in starter.
Thanks Bob
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Thu, Feb 5, 2009 6:41 AM
poor farmer/logger
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Reply to bluox:
Hello,
Take your batteries to to a battery shop and have them checked.A low battery will burn contacts in starter.
Thanks Bob
Going to try and talk to him tomorow. He was gone from work today. It's billed as a delco solinoid but I believe it's usi or something like that on the solinoid. Can't remember now for sure. Wasn't impressed anyways when i went to start it this afternoon.

Both batteries are new bluox. After siting outside last night at about 5 above they spun the engine over good this morning. Both batteries hold a chage good yet.

Ryan
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Thu, Feb 5, 2009 7:14 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to poor farmer/logger:
Going to try and talk to him tomorow. He was gone from work today. It's billed as a delco solinoid but I believe it's usi or something like that on the solinoid. Can't remember now for sure. Wasn't impressed anyways when i went to start it this afternoon.

Both batteries are new bluox. After siting outside last night at about 5 above they spun the engine over good this morning. Both batteries hold a chage good yet.

Ryan
Wow, didn't expect you to be back so soon😉 😉

With your cold temperature starts that 40MT starter is probably getting a pretty good work out trying to do the job of the 50MT....still the solenoid shouldn't fail so soon. If a standard replacement won't cut it there are upgraded versions with better contacts.
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Thu, Feb 5, 2009 8:45 AM
poor farmer/logger
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Wow, didn't expect you to be back so soon😉 😉

With your cold temperature starts that 40MT starter is probably getting a pretty good work out trying to do the job of the 50MT....still the solenoid shouldn't fail so soon. If a standard replacement won't cut it there are upgraded versions with better contacts.
It's definatley on it's limits turning it over in the cold. Think I read it's rated for 880 ci or something like that. The 339 Is right in at 850 ci I believe. I don't know what temp they base those on. Gets allot stifer in the cold, that's for sure. I try not to crank it over for very long periods. Hopefully it'll hold for a few years. Once it starts it usually doesn't shut off untill the job is done. Course once it's all warmed up it's not so bad to turn it over. The decompresion helps allot too. At least it doesn't have to spin it over as hard right off the start.

Somehing is definatley up with the solinoid, it's been started 3 times now. two of those times were in the heated shop. Today was the first cold start since the rebuild on the starter.

Ryan
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Thu, Feb 5, 2009 8:53 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to poor farmer/logger:
It's definatley on it's limits turning it over in the cold. Think I read it's rated for 880 ci or something like that. The 339 Is right in at 850 ci I believe. I don't know what temp they base those on. Gets allot stifer in the cold, that's for sure. I try not to crank it over for very long periods. Hopefully it'll hold for a few years. Once it starts it usually doesn't shut off untill the job is done. Course once it's all warmed up it's not so bad to turn it over. The decompresion helps allot too. At least it doesn't have to spin it over as hard right off the start.

Somehing is definatley up with the solinoid, it's been started 3 times now. two of those times were in the heated shop. Today was the first cold start since the rebuild on the starter.

Ryan
Can you post a picture of that starter and how it's wired up.
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Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:13 AM
196200
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Can you post a picture of that starter and how it's wired up.
Later Bob and I wrote a 10 page "paper" on this problem with Swishy's help on the ACME site. I'd share a copy with you on this site if I knew how to load a document. We wrote a pretty good description of how to diagnose what the real problem is AFTER I tried to fix the problem by the "replace parts one part at a time" method. All of the components can affect one another and make it look like it's the solenoid when it turns out the solenoid is just displaying the symptom caused by other components.
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Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:47 AM
bernie
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Maybe this is the post you are referring to-

http://www.antiquecaterpillar.net/ACF_v2/showthread.php?t=13403&highlight=196200

bernie
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Thu, Feb 5, 2009 10:22 AM
poor farmer/logger
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Reply to 196200:
Later Bob and I wrote a 10 page "paper" on this problem with Swishy's help on the ACME site. I'd share a copy with you on this site if I knew how to load a document. We wrote a pretty good description of how to diagnose what the real problem is AFTER I tried to fix the problem by the "replace parts one part at a time" method. All of the components can affect one another and make it look like it's the solenoid when it turns out the solenoid is just displaying the symptom caused by other components.
Here you go OM, went out in the dark and snaped a pic. Hopefully you can decipher my crude arrows.lol.. I checked it out with the wiring diagrams and everything seems to check out.

This starter was just profesionally rebuilt so I don't think there's any other problems with it. New brushes bushings solenoid and plunger. Before I took the starter off I took every connection off and polished it and the mount up to a real nice shine. I also replaced one battery cable and all but one post connection.

I did a quick search on acme and that's what I came up with too with the same one that bernie posted a link too. Could you posibly post a link to the information 196200? Sounds like some very useful information.
Attachment
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Thu, Feb 5, 2009 11:08 AM
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