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Max rpm for D3400

Max rpm for D3400

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smf52
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Will the D3400 run at 1800 rpm? I have seen dyno graphs up to 1600 rpm. I would like to run a 20kw gen head with a spare engine I have. I believe the D3400 and D311 generator sets spun at 1200 rpm, but the selection for 1200 rpm generator heads is slim.
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Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:34 AM
bruce oz
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hello smf52 ,in the rack setting books i have ,it show max revs @1650 for d3400 industrial engine ,the d311 @1800 revs ,bruce oz
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Sun, Dec 13, 2009 12:51 PM
Willie
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Reply to bruce oz:
hello smf52 ,in the rack setting books i have ,it show max revs @1650 for d3400 industrial engine ,the d311 @1800 revs ,bruce oz
My book shows for 3 3/4 bore low idle 600 rpm high idle 1650 rpm and full load 1525 rpm thats from book printed in 1940 but they change HP of the D2 many times thru its production and many only involved raising the RPMs
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Sun, Dec 13, 2009 1:30 PM
OzDozer
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Reply to Willie:
My book shows for 3 3/4 bore low idle 600 rpm high idle 1650 rpm and full load 1525 rpm thats from book printed in 1940 but they change HP of the D2 many times thru its production and many only involved raising the RPMs
There is no indication that I can find anywhere, that a D3400 can be run at 1800 RPM. I'd say you do so, at the risk of engine destruction. Remember, this is a low tech engine built in the 1930's, and which was obsolete by 1947, when it was replaced by the D311 .. which engine, WAS built, for higher RPM.

The problem that I see, is that the engine has to pull 1850-1875 RPM to sit on 1800 RPM under moderate to heavy load, to be able to generate 60Hz current. Engine RPM droop below 1800 RPM will see variations in frequency, voltage and amperage that could damage electrical equipment it is driving .. and generate more alternator heat as amperage increases, via lower voltages.

You could possibly pull these kind of RPM's, but it would need to be at a low HP rating (maybe 25 HP?), and not under continuous use. "Intermittent" ratings allow for temporary overspeed or higher HP output, but "Continuous" ratings demand a lower RPM and a lowered HP output. In my experience of running gensets, they run flat out for long periods.
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Sun, Dec 13, 2009 9:34 PM
KCB
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Reply to OzDozer:
There is no indication that I can find anywhere, that a D3400 can be run at 1800 RPM. I'd say you do so, at the risk of engine destruction. Remember, this is a low tech engine built in the 1930's, and which was obsolete by 1947, when it was replaced by the D311 .. which engine, WAS built, for higher RPM.

The problem that I see, is that the engine has to pull 1850-1875 RPM to sit on 1800 RPM under moderate to heavy load, to be able to generate 60Hz current. Engine RPM droop below 1800 RPM will see variations in frequency, voltage and amperage that could damage electrical equipment it is driving .. and generate more alternator heat as amperage increases, via lower voltages.

You could possibly pull these kind of RPM's, but it would need to be at a low HP rating (maybe 25 HP?), and not under continuous use. "Intermittent" ratings allow for temporary overspeed or higher HP output, but "Continuous" ratings demand a lower RPM and a lowered HP output. In my experience of running gensets, they run flat out for long periods.
smf52: You need to move to Europe or other countries that use 50 Hz power. Your D3400 genset would work well at 1500 RPM. Another option is to belt drive a 2-bearing generator using your D3400 with PTO mounted pulley. Generator could be mounted below, above, or to the side of the crankshaft centerline.
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Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:21 PM
OzDozer
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Reply to KCB:
smf52: You need to move to Europe or other countries that use 50 Hz power. Your D3400 genset would work well at 1500 RPM. Another option is to belt drive a 2-bearing generator using your D3400 with PTO mounted pulley. Generator could be mounted below, above, or to the side of the crankshaft centerline.
If a belt drive was used, it would need to be structured so that the engine driveshaft and the generator shaft were supported on the ends by a bearing.

"Overhung" (unsupported) driveshafts and generator shafts are undesirable, because of the excessive load placed on the engine rear main bearing, and on the generator front bearing, by the belt drive.
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Sun, Dec 13, 2009 10:36 PM
smf52
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Reply to OzDozer:
If a belt drive was used, it would need to be structured so that the engine driveshaft and the generator shaft were supported on the ends by a bearing.

"Overhung" (unsupported) driveshafts and generator shafts are undesirable, because of the excessive load placed on the engine rear main bearing, and on the generator front bearing, by the belt drive.
I agree trying to run the D3400 at 1800 rpm for any length of time is not a good idea. The PTO setup would be nice but finding that unit is unlikely.
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Mon, Dec 14, 2009 1:08 AM
KCB
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Reply to smf52:
I agree trying to run the D3400 at 1800 rpm for any length of time is not a good idea. The PTO setup would be nice but finding that unit is unlikely.
smf52: I have a PTO unit for the D3400 . Contact me if interested.

OzDozer: I agree that avoiding "overhung" shafts for pulley drives is the best general design practice. However in the case of the D3400 application, the PTO unit has a large tapered bearing pair as rear bearing and a double roller bearing at pilot into flywheel. The side load on the engine crankshaft with this arrangement is rather low. Furthermore the D3400 engine crankshaft and bearings are very robust for the power rating (~30 HP). I wouldn't loose any sleep about the engine bearings running the D3400 rear PTO with belt side load. Consider another extreme. Most CAT large generator sets (e.g. 3516B at over 2000 eKW) use single bearing generators such that approximatley half the weight of the generator rotor is supported by the rear engine bearing. One can argue this is not best design practice, but it has been successful on many, many units.
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Mon, Dec 14, 2009 2:04 AM
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