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Magneto expert needed

Magneto expert needed

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oldbeek
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My cat 12 pony died while trying to start the diesel. Since then I narrowed it down to the Magneto. 2 cyl wico. 4S6740 I have the mag on a mag test bench. This thing is driving me nuts. At the output pin on the mag coil, I have a good 3/16 long spark. It is in timed perfectly with the snap of the impulse. The rotor is lined up to the plug wire post when the impulse snaps.
Coming out of the cap I have nothing. No cracks in the cap and the brushes have continuity to the wire plugs. The rotor has no grounds and has good continuity from center tap and tip of the rotor. The spring that goes from the coil tap to the center of the rotor is all good.
I could just start buying parts but they are expensive. A condenser was $48.00. Any ideas???
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Thu, Aug 31, 2017 11:36 AM
STEPHEN
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[quote="oldbeek"]My cat 12 pony died while trying to start the diesel. Since then I narrowed it down to the Magneto. 2 cyl wico. 4S6740 I have the mag on a mag test bench. This thing is driving me nuts. At the output pin on the mag coil, I have a good 3/16 long spark. It is in timed perfectly with the snap of the impulse. The rotor is lined up to the plug wire post when the impulse snaps.
Coming out of the cap I have nothing. No cracks in the cap and the brushes have continuity to the wire plugs. The rotor has no grounds and has good continuity from center tap and tip of the rotor. The spring that goes from the coil tap to the center of the rotor is all good.
I could just start buying parts but they are expensive. A condenser was $48.00. Any ideas???[/quote]

If you took the distributor portion apart, is it possible that when you say the the rotor is lined up when it snaps, that the rotor has moved past the post at that instant? There should be some indicators on the gears to get them timed. Also, you could disable the impulse to check the rotor position. One way is to turn the mag backwards to the place where the points would normally open, then check the gearing and final position.
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Thu, Aug 31, 2017 6:25 PM
drujinin
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When you say rotor lined up with the post. Do you mean "exactly lined up"? From my understanding it should be just before so that when it snaps, it flies past the post. If I am understanding your description, it sounds as though it is firing past the post. Is there a gear set inside a WICO? That I don't know? I was always under the belief that they are a straight through shaft type of Magneto which is why they have the Impulse Coupler. I am guessing that maybe the Impulse Mechanism is on a spline of the shaft and MAYBE slipped a cog or three?
Just throwing it out there
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Thu, Aug 31, 2017 6:31 PM
oldbeek
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Reply to drujinin:
When you say rotor lined up with the post. Do you mean "exactly lined up"? From my understanding it should be just before so that when it snaps, it flies past the post. If I am understanding your description, it sounds as though it is firing past the post. Is there a gear set inside a WICO? That I don't know? I was always under the belief that they are a straight through shaft type of Magneto which is why they have the Impulse Coupler. I am guessing that maybe the Impulse Mechanism is on a spline of the shaft and MAYBE slipped a cog or three?
Just throwing it out there
Wico or prestolite does have a gear set. The rotor is about 1/2 in wide where it mates to the Spark plug brush. Mag is firing spark right at the beginning of the rotor contact. hard to miss it especially looking dead on to it, being in a test bench with a variable speed motor.
I think I have narrowed it down to the coil. Something just died as it was working so good before. The spark out of the coil will rarely jump 1/4 inch and was not blue.
Not working on a mag for a long time, I was thinking they have a really long blue spark. I got the mag off my 1941 parts tractor (4F867😎. Even with a cracked cap, on the test bench it will throw a 1/2 inch long blue spark after the plug wires on the test bench electrodes.
I have routed out the crack with a Dremell tool and JB welded it. Not even going to remove the cap. This mag is going back on my machine when the JB dries. It is the mag the parts book calls out
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Fri, Sep 1, 2017 2:55 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to oldbeek:
Wico or prestolite does have a gear set. The rotor is about 1/2 in wide where it mates to the Spark plug brush. Mag is firing spark right at the beginning of the rotor contact. hard to miss it especially looking dead on to it, being in a test bench with a variable speed motor.
I think I have narrowed it down to the coil. Something just died as it was working so good before. The spark out of the coil will rarely jump 1/4 inch and was not blue.
Not working on a mag for a long time, I was thinking they have a really long blue spark. I got the mag off my 1941 parts tractor (4F867😎. Even with a cracked cap, on the test bench it will throw a 1/2 inch long blue spark after the plug wires on the test bench electrodes.
I have routed out the crack with a Dremell tool and JB welded it. Not even going to remove the cap. This mag is going back on my machine when the JB dries. It is the mag the parts book calls out
Wico magnetos have direct drive armature. Rotor is gear driven. Coil X5700C should check out at at least 8500 ohm and yes you should have a nice fat blue spark that should jump 3/8" +.
Condenser/capacitor should check out at 0.30 to 0.34 microfarads.
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Fri, Sep 1, 2017 10:11 AM
oldbeek
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Wico magnetos have direct drive armature. Rotor is gear driven. Coil X5700C should check out at at least 8500 ohm and yes you should have a nice fat blue spark that should jump 3/8" +.
Condenser/capacitor should check out at 0.30 to 0.34 microfarads.
Thanks, I will ck that coil out.
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Fri, Sep 1, 2017 11:45 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to oldbeek:
Thanks, I will ck that coil out.
Check that Wico s/n again.I believe it should be a 4S6470, not 4S6740.
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Fri, Sep 1, 2017 11:36 PM
oldbeek
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Check that Wico s/n again.I believe it should be a 4S6470, not 4S6740.
The 1941 mag did not directly fit. Had to file out the mounting holes to a slot shape. The later engine the holes were not directly across the center line. The # on this mag is: 4/2 360A 408. Does that cross to a cat #? Wico mag coil read. 0.6 ohms
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Sat, Sep 2, 2017 4:22 AM
oldbeek
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Check that Wico s/n again.I believe it should be a 4S6470, not 4S6740.

You are right. I can swap numbers quicker than a bird dog can change directions.
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Sat, Sep 2, 2017 4:24 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to oldbeek:
The 1941 mag did not directly fit. Had to file out the mounting holes to a slot shape. The later engine the holes were not directly across the center line. The # on this mag is: 4/2 360A 408. Does that cross to a cat #? Wico mag coil read. 0.6 ohms


Cat 4S6470 = Wico XH2839= American Bosch NJK4/2 360 D410 used on the D318. 4S6470 was originally used on the 977D.

AB NJK 360 A408 = Wico XH2838=Cat #9H4479 used on the D4600.
These mags are not interchangeable on the D6 as the 408 series magneto is vertical mount on the D4600 and the 410 series magneto is meant for the D318 that has the tilted mount. The mounting difference affects the gravity controlled latching of the impulse mechanism.
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Sat, Sep 2, 2017 9:22 AM
oldbeek
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Reply to Old Magnet:


Cat 4S6470 = Wico XH2839= American Bosch NJK4/2 360 D410 used on the D318. 4S6470 was originally used on the 977D.

AB NJK 360 A408 = Wico XH2838=Cat #9H4479 used on the D4600.
These mags are not interchangeable on the D6 as the 408 series magneto is vertical mount on the D4600 and the 410 series magneto is meant for the D318 that has the tilted mount. The mounting difference affects the gravity controlled latching of the impulse mechanism.
None of these numbers show up in my parts book. You are right about the mounting orientation but it did make the engine run. Guess the starter spins it fast enough to not need the impulse. Guess it is back to fixing the wico coil.
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Sat, Sep 2, 2017 11:39 AM
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