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lots of smoke from the D2....but no VROOM

lots of smoke from the D2....but no VROOM

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Hillbillybjopkr
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so....having a issue getting the main engine fired.....yesterday.....we drained the entire fuel system to get the old diesel out...even took the lines off and blew them out.....once we FINALLY got the pony going (that's another issue I need to address)....we cranked it over for awhile....we left everything loose....and started tightening as we saw good fuel emerge.....started at the filter tower vents...then fuel lines......lots of white smoke from the main...just no combustion.....im not a big fan of eather...I used one little squirt....it tried a little but got nothing.....other than rebleeding the system I'm a bit at a loss......with the white smoke I'm assuming its getting fuel......other issue is how hard the pony itself is to start.....have brand new plugs....fairly new wires....carb bowl off the D4 pony...D4 pony runs well....typically starts easy...but is electric start....the D2 pony....easily 2 hours of rope pulling.....will pop and putter....but that's it....then when it finally does....it runs awesome......I either have to figure out why its so hard to start....or rig up a electric start...my shoulders and back are in full protest....
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Sun, Apr 8, 2018 10:38 PM
jstandle
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Are you getting white smoke before you give the main fuel? Though I will say, mine seems to do this also a bit and still starts OK but when things are all good you shouldn't get any smoke during the initial warm-up. If I get a failed attempt, I re-open compression and let it run for a short bit to clear the cylinders then go back to compression and try again.

I would try bleeding with air. Setup your air source regulated to 10 PSI or so (no more than that, can hurt the tank) and blow air in through the fuel tank cap vent hole and bleed at your injector pump.

Is your diesel tank completely full of fuel? that will help by giving the system a little more pressure, especially helpful when your transfer pump is weak from wear.

Have you cleaned the carburetor on that D2 pony? If you have good spark then rebuilding the carb will most likely fix that poor start problem. Do some searching here and rebuild it right and be sure to check the bell crank, all of the carbs I have touched have had a bent bellcrank. After I've rebuilt a pony carb they will start on the first or second pull (so far I'm 4 for 4).

Jordan
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Sun, Apr 8, 2018 11:22 PM
juiceman
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Reply to jstandle:


Are you getting white smoke before you give the main fuel? Though I will say, mine seems to do this also a bit and still starts OK but when things are all good you shouldn't get any smoke during the initial warm-up. If I get a failed attempt, I re-open compression and let it run for a short bit to clear the cylinders then go back to compression and try again.

I would try bleeding with air. Setup your air source regulated to 10 PSI or so (no more than that, can hurt the tank) and blow air in through the fuel tank cap vent hole and bleed at your injector pump.

Is your diesel tank completely full of fuel? that will help by giving the system a little more pressure, especially helpful when your transfer pump is weak from wear.

Have you cleaned the carburetor on that D2 pony? If you have good spark then rebuilding the carb will most likely fix that poor start problem. Do some searching here and rebuild it right and be sure to check the bell crank, all of the carbs I have touched have had a bent bellcrank. After I've rebuilt a pony carb they will start on the first or second pull (so far I'm 4 for 4).

Jordan
Check to see if the rack is stuck. JM
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Sun, Apr 8, 2018 11:51 PM
Hillbillybjopkr
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Reply to jstandle:


Are you getting white smoke before you give the main fuel? Though I will say, mine seems to do this also a bit and still starts OK but when things are all good you shouldn't get any smoke during the initial warm-up. If I get a failed attempt, I re-open compression and let it run for a short bit to clear the cylinders then go back to compression and try again.

I would try bleeding with air. Setup your air source regulated to 10 PSI or so (no more than that, can hurt the tank) and blow air in through the fuel tank cap vent hole and bleed at your injector pump.

Is your diesel tank completely full of fuel? that will help by giving the system a little more pressure, especially helpful when your transfer pump is weak from wear.

Have you cleaned the carburetor on that D2 pony? If you have good spark then rebuilding the carb will most likely fix that poor start problem. Do some searching here and rebuild it right and be sure to check the bell crank, all of the carbs I have touched have had a bent bellcrank. After I've rebuilt a pony carb they will start on the first or second pull (so far I'm 4 for 4).

Jordan
Fuel tank is plumb full......I feel like a idiot not thinking about pressurizing the tank...I have a thing I made just for that....did it on my D4 lol......the original carb from the D2 is off....I tore it down...cleaned it up....straightened out the bellcrank......haven't checks that lower passage yet so that will be todays project.....I get the white smoke soon as I apply fuel while under compression....no smoke while in start...or with the fuel off.....has decent fuel pressure btw
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Sun, Apr 8, 2018 11:52 PM
kracked1
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Reply to Hillbillybjopkr:
Fuel tank is plumb full......I feel like a idiot not thinking about pressurizing the tank...I have a thing I made just for that....did it on my D4 lol......the original carb from the D2 is off....I tore it down...cleaned it up....straightened out the bellcrank......haven't checks that lower passage yet so that will be todays project.....I get the white smoke soon as I apply fuel while under compression....no smoke while in start...or with the fuel off.....has decent fuel pressure btw
Ether is needed. If it has not run in awhile it will be down on compression. It will need some help to get running. It will not hurt if used in moderation. Put in before the air cleaner then it will be blended and not end up all in one hole. Try 2x as much as you used and see what happens. You might have to keep a slight mist going until it hits on all cylinders. It is asking ALOT to expect this to start in assisted after it has sat this long. The white smoke tells you it is getting fuel.
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Mon, Apr 9, 2018 1:18 AM
D4C Charlie
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Reply to kracked1:
Ether is needed. If it has not run in awhile it will be down on compression. It will need some help to get running. It will not hurt if used in moderation. Put in before the air cleaner then it will be blended and not end up all in one hole. Try 2x as much as you used and see what happens. You might have to keep a slight mist going until it hits on all cylinders. It is asking ALOT to expect this to start in assisted after it has sat this long. The white smoke tells you it is getting fuel.
My D2 did that and it turned out to be a pinhole in a precup.
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Mon, Apr 9, 2018 2:34 AM
Hillbillybjopkr
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Reply to D4C Charlie:
My D2 did that and it turned out to be a pinhole in a precup.
so today....I got the pony running well....it either starts within a couple pulls....or almost tears your arm off......completely redid the entire carb....put the original bowl back on......went to put the brand new points and condenser in.....checked for spark.....wasn't getting anything consistant at low rpm's.....but was stable at higher rpms.....then out of the blue it just quit sparking.....so I said the heck with it and threw the whole magneto from the D4 in it....and away it went......right off the bat.....I shut it off...and restarted it a couple times.......and with in a pull or two it fires right up.....will also come to a dead stop on the first pull...mid pull....tore the hell out of my shoulder tonight.....so......tried the main engine.....and same result......lots and lots of white smoke.....cracked all the lines....top and bottom....three times.....no change....so I decided to start with the ether.....cringing the entire time......it would pop enough to kick out the pony motor....re-engaged.....gave it a squirt.....popped it out.....after the third time...soon as I apply fuel...it kicks the pony out......I tried holding up on the engagement lever.....it feels like something is physically hitting it and popping it out.....so I shut it down......I put the decompresson lever in start and rolled the main over by hand.....felt nice and smooth....nothing banging around....but I did notice the smoke has gotten a smidge darker.....kinda a brown tinge to it.......so I'm thinking what I'm feeling is combustion in one hole....ill take a vid and post it when my shoulder heals up a bit.....it is KILLING me

the Mag......does anyone have the specs on them and a breakdown....its a MJK


the D4 when I got it a couple yrs ago......fired right up after sitting for 10 yrs......the D2 supposedly hasn't ran in 3......and boy is she making me work for it lol
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Mon, Apr 9, 2018 8:17 AM
Hillbillybjopkr
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Reply to kracked1:
Ether is needed. If it has not run in awhile it will be down on compression. It will need some help to get running. It will not hurt if used in moderation. Put in before the air cleaner then it will be blended and not end up all in one hole. Try 2x as much as you used and see what happens. You might have to keep a slight mist going until it hits on all cylinders. It is asking ALOT to expect this to start in assisted after it has sat this long. The white smoke tells you it is getting fuel.


clarify befor the aircleaner.......aircleaner is currently off.....so do I apply it into the aircleaner intake....or the intake without the aircleaner.....


I really hate ether.....in case I haven't made that obvious........I have a vision of giving a squirt of ether...and ending up with a piston in my lap.....and yes....I can be ultra paranoid about things....I don't wanna hurt my babys lol
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Mon, Apr 9, 2018 8:56 AM
kracked1
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Reply to Hillbillybjopkr:


clarify befor the aircleaner.......aircleaner is currently off.....so do I apply it into the aircleaner intake....or the intake without the aircleaner.....


I really hate ether.....in case I haven't made that obvious........I have a vision of giving a squirt of ether...and ending up with a piston in my lap.....and yes....I can be ultra paranoid about things....I don't wanna hurt my babys lol
In the intake. You don't need to put air cleaner back on. Sounds like you are getting closer to running now. Darker smoke means you are getting some fire. It is firing and that is what is kicking the pinion out.
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Mon, Apr 9, 2018 9:04 AM
Hillbillybjopkr
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Reply to kracked1:
In the intake. You don't need to put air cleaner back on. Sounds like you are getting closer to running now. Darker smoke means you are getting some fire. It is firing and that is what is kicking the pinion out.


so is say..one cylinder firing the hammering I'm feeling through the engagement lever...as I hold it in.......ill keep doing what I'm doing...with the ether.......if I'm on the right track........

....even my wife is saying......"use more ether......get the cylinders HOT....to loosen everything up....it wasn't stored like the D4 was".........

......I don't want it to become a "Ether junkie" right off the bat.....
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Mon, Apr 9, 2018 9:17 AM
bursitis
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Reply to Hillbillybjopkr:


so is say..one cylinder firing the hammering I'm feeling through the engagement lever...as I hold it in.......ill keep doing what I'm doing...with the ether.......if I'm on the right track........

....even my wife is saying......"use more ether......get the cylinders HOT....to loosen everything up....it wasn't stored like the D4 was".........

......I don't want it to become a "Ether junkie" right off the bat.....
since you have the air cleaner off get a propane torch. get the engine spinning under compression and hold the lit torch into the intake and throw the fuel to it. it should start. some old timers used a flaming rag soaked in gasoline and wrapped with wire. if you do this be careful not to suck the rag into the intake.
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Mon, Apr 9, 2018 9:35 AM
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