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Johnson bar

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tanker
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2U I am using has a special tranny w/ 1-2-3-4 forward gears & 7mph reverse-on disc I use 3rd- but the Johnson bar wont do anything in this gear{won't reverse so bet this gear was never used-makes it a pain -as need to grab another gear to back up}--question is which position would be proper for the Johnson bar while in 3rd gear--forward-reverse- or neutral??
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Fri, Apr 10, 2009 10:58 AM
Deas Plant.
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Hi, Tanker,
As I understand the term, a Johnson Bar was a lever attached to a transmission component in a direct drive transmission that allowed you to change from forward to reverse without using the clutch. I believe these jiggers were common on John Deere machines of some years ago. I am open to correction on this.

Again, as I understand it, Cat didn't use this sytem, certainly not on any Cat DD machines that I have operated. I suspect that what you have is a forward-reverse lever or shuttle lever in a special parts D8 direct drive transmission. STANDARD shift pattern in these machines fitted with a standard transmission had 1-2-3-4 in an 'H' pattern with 5th gear away and forward. The forward-reverse lever was usually inboard of the gear lever, toward the operator. The forward-reverse lever was usually locked out of reverse when the main trans was in 5th gear.

Tractors built for military use commonly had different gearing in the transmissions to suit military usage. Such machines commonly had the letters 'SP' after the serial number to denote 'special parts'. I understand that there were also other variations in the transmissions for agricultural use, again denoted by the 'SP' suffix on the serial #. The serial number of your machine may give some clues about actually what you have there.

Does the tractor drive in 3rd gear with the forward-reverse lever in neutral? About what speed does the machine travel at in 3rd gear? Also, are you sure you are not going right out into 5th gear for your plowing, as this would normally preclude being able to get the forward-reverse lever into reverse? Check your gear lever positions carefully as the normal transmissions have 5 forward gears and you could get reverse on all gears 1 through 4.

I have never previously heard of a 7 mph reverse gear on a Cat direct drive. I can just about imagine what that might do for track wear.

Hope this helps.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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Fri, Apr 10, 2009 2:06 PM
R W
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Always believed the term Johnson Bar referred to the reverse lever on a steam locomotive in the US.
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Fri, Apr 10, 2009 5:56 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to R W:


Always believed the term Johnson Bar referred to the reverse lever on a steam locomotive in the US.
Depends on what you mean by "special transmission).....on late units the tractor will move forward in third and fourth (one combo) or third and fifth (another combo)....with the forward/reverse lever in either forward or neutral positions.

The term "Johnson Bar" seems to have many applications of which the "forward/reverse" lever on Caterpillars is a correct one.
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Fri, Apr 10, 2009 11:32 PM
tanker
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Depends on what you mean by "special transmission).....on late units the tractor will move forward in third and fourth (one combo) or third and fifth (another combo)....with the forward/reverse lever in either forward or neutral positions.

The term "Johnson Bar" seems to have many applications of which the "forward/reverse" lever on Caterpillars is a correct one.
This 2U must have been ordered w/ this special tranny for use as push cat- in 1 or 2 or 4th gear the neat shuttle lever will move you forward -neutral in center & backwards { in every gear reverse is faster} except for 3rd- in which case the lever has no control of anything- compared to my other 2U there is 1 gear option missing to get the fast reverse- this machine will go 5 in forward and 7 in reverse- 3rd is aprox 3mph forward only option- I was worried that something wouldn't get lube is shuttle lever was in wrong position all day long {ie- like RD7 will give tranny oil problems if run in reverse to long}--😞 was no problem today as ground was loose enough that I ran in 2nd as reverse was required when blades decided to stall.- if this condition isn't noticed quickly the 30 ft dbl offset becomes a huge dump rake..
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Sat, Apr 11, 2009 10:34 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to tanker:
This 2U must have been ordered w/ this special tranny for use as push cat- in 1 or 2 or 4th gear the neat shuttle lever will move you forward -neutral in center & backwards { in every gear reverse is faster} except for 3rd- in which case the lever has no control of anything- compared to my other 2U there is 1 gear option missing to get the fast reverse- this machine will go 5 in forward and 7 in reverse- 3rd is aprox 3mph forward only option- I was worried that something wouldn't get lube is shuttle lever was in wrong position all day long {ie- like RD7 will give tranny oil problems if run in reverse to long}--😞 was no problem today as ground was loose enough that I ran in 2nd as reverse was required when blades decided to stall.- if this condition isn't noticed quickly the 30 ft dbl offset becomes a huge dump rake..
There is a 8F8501 Transmission Group - High Reverse for 2U15001-2U21512 (one of many options) that shows speeds of 2.2 mph 1st, 3.1mph 2nd and 6.9mph 3rd in reverse and only four gears forward.
What is your serial number?
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Sat, Apr 11, 2009 11:01 AM
edb
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Reply to Old Magnet:
There is a 8F8501 Transmission Group - High Reverse for 2U15001-2U21512 (one of many options) that shows speeds of 2.2 mph 1st, 3.1mph 2nd and 6.9mph 3rd in reverse and only four gears forward.
What is your serial number?
Hi Team,
here is scan from D8 1H, 8R & 2U 1-up OMI Form No12518-4 Dated 3-57, on the shift pattern. It needs to be read very carefully to decifer the data as to what occurs with the levers in which position but seems to agree with what tanker is saying, BUT does not cover the special ratios that may have been availabe as per OM.
Also OMI for 13A and 2U 21513-23537 shows same data as for later Fwd-Rev lever position and gear shift operation and positions.
2u1-5306, 1H&8R of course had the Slide Bar Gate shift lever.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Sat, Apr 11, 2009 12:28 PM
tanker
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Reply to Old Magnet:
There is a 8F8501 Transmission Group - High Reverse for 2U15001-2U21512 (one of many options) that shows speeds of 2.2 mph 1st, 3.1mph 2nd and 6.9mph 3rd in reverse and only four gears forward.
What is your serial number?
[quote="Old Magnet"]There is a 8F8501 Transmission Group - High Reverse for 2U15001-2U21512 (one of many options) that shows speeds of 2.2 mph 1st, 3.1mph 2nd and 6.9mph 3rd in reverse and only four gears forward.
What is your serial number?[/quote]
Just put her away for night-serial plate is hard to read but it looks like 2U21434SP- and it does have the 8F8501 option- along w/ much bigger air cleaner & for some reason the hood has been extended & hard nose redrilled & moved forward & spacer to move fan ahead{found all these goodies when I sandblasted to paint} also had nice enameled plates on side of hard nose that said Hi output D-8- I was wondering if there is a proper setting for the forward/reverse lever[old timer around here call it Johnson bar??] when in 3rd gear-- maybe it doesn't matter since it doesn't do anything? but would hate to ruin something for not knowing..I am pretty proud of this old cat & would like to keep it in top notch shape-I could share pics if I knew how..
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Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:58 AM
Deas Plant.
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Reply to tanker:
[quote="Old Magnet"]There is a 8F8501 Transmission Group - High Reverse for 2U15001-2U21512 (one of many options) that shows speeds of 2.2 mph 1st, 3.1mph 2nd and 6.9mph 3rd in reverse and only four gears forward.
What is your serial number?[/quote]
Just put her away for night-serial plate is hard to read but it looks like 2U21434SP- and it does have the 8F8501 option- along w/ much bigger air cleaner & for some reason the hood has been extended & hard nose redrilled & moved forward & spacer to move fan ahead{found all these goodies when I sandblasted to paint} also had nice enameled plates on side of hard nose that said Hi output D-8- I was wondering if there is a proper setting for the forward/reverse lever[old timer around here call it Johnson bar??] when in 3rd gear-- maybe it doesn't matter since it doesn't do anything? but would hate to ruin something for not knowing..I am pretty proud of this old cat & would like to keep it in top notch shape-I could share pics if I knew how..
Hi, Tanker.
The thought did occur to me when I saw your first posts about your D8 that it might have been modified for scraper pushing. I didn't know that some of these jiggers were fitted with a 6.9 mph reverse gear. I suspect that if you had posted photos of the beast, you would have been inundated with information about it 'cos the Hi-Output D8's seem to spark a LOT of interest on these boards.

So, WHERE are the photos? LOL. Lookee here for 'destructions' on posting photos.

http://www.acmocbb.org/ACMOC_BB/showthread.php?t=288

You can see one man's Hi-Output D8 restoration story here - carefull, this is an opposition site and you become infected.

http://www.antiquecaterpillar.net/ACF_v2/showthread.php?t=10118

Make yourself a sandwich and a coffee before you settle down to read it. It's now 90 pages long.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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Sun, Apr 12, 2009 12:36 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to Deas Plant.:
Hi, Tanker.
The thought did occur to me when I saw your first posts about your D8 that it might have been modified for scraper pushing. I didn't know that some of these jiggers were fitted with a 6.9 mph reverse gear. I suspect that if you had posted photos of the beast, you would have been inundated with information about it 'cos the Hi-Output D8's seem to spark a LOT of interest on these boards.

So, WHERE are the photos? LOL. Lookee here for 'destructions' on posting photos.

http://www.acmocbb.org/ACMOC_BB/showthread.php?t=288

You can see one man's Hi-Output D8 restoration story here - carefull, this is an opposition site and you become infected.

http://www.antiquecaterpillar.net/ACF_v2/showthread.php?t=10118

Make yourself a sandwich and a coffee before you settle down to read it. It's now 90 pages long.
I suspect you have a problem with the third gear shift gate, fork or collar in the transmission. This gear has its own fork and collar that only connects 3rd gear unlike the other collars that usually control two gears with a two direction collar. I would not think that the gear would be left out as you would have to make up the spacing with something.

Third gear is the one in the lower rh corner of diagram.

Also shown is the matching shift pattern plate for this option.
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Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:27 PM
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