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Hydraulic Pump on 5J

Hydraulic Pump on 5J

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cojhl2
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Looking for help.

When I get back to WA in May my first project will be to move my hydraulic pump from belt driven off crankshaft pulley to front engine inline with crankshaft. I'm going to need all the help I can get from you guys.

For instance where do I get the shaft and connections required to hook to the pulley. Is there a way to bolt to the crankshaft pulley or do I need to obtain some other pulley?

Since the front of the tractor has no suitable support for the pump I'm going to have to come out from under the engine. I don't think that is any serious problem is it?

Looking forward to ideas and help from you guys so I can have as much lined up while I'm here in CO.

Thank you in advance. Looking forward to discussion. Unfortunately the tractor is 1100 mi away so I have to do a lot of this by memory. (Which sucks:lol😊
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Mon, Feb 18, 2013 12:23 PM
Old Magnet
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Here is what the original #44 pump mount looks like.
Google a place called "Hub City" for splined shaft and couplings if that's what you intend to use.

It's going to depend on how much room you have as far as coupling and attachment to the crankshaft pulley.
Simplest I've seen is a fabricated flange bolt on adapter to square shaft drive.
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Tue, Feb 19, 2013 1:00 AM
ccjersey
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The shaft is the least of your problems. Mounting the pump up there is the hard part on a J series. I have one that someone along the line replaced the radiator and it's mounting system with one from a U series and put a #44 hydraulic control on it.

On the shaft, I would simply use a double Universal joint shaft unless you can find a stock CAT coupling and shaft. You will have to fabricate a stub shaft on the front of the crankshaft pulley, but I believe any machine shop can take care of that. My 5J parts book shows a couple of bolts in the crankshaft pulley already to hold the locking plate for the big nut, a couple more drilled through there should secure your stub and provide plenty of strength to drive the pump.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Tue, Feb 19, 2013 1:50 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to ccjersey:
The shaft is the least of your problems. Mounting the pump up there is the hard part on a J series. I have one that someone along the line replaced the radiator and it's mounting system with one from a U series and put a #44 hydraulic control on it.

On the shaft, I would simply use a double Universal joint shaft unless you can find a stock CAT coupling and shaft. You will have to fabricate a stub shaft on the front of the crankshaft pulley, but I believe any machine shop can take care of that. My 5J parts book shows a couple of bolts in the crankshaft pulley already to hold the locking plate for the big nut, a couple more drilled through there should secure your stub and provide plenty of strength to drive the pump.
I would not recommend u-joints if they are the needle bearing type unless there is an offset (significant) to the shaft. Otherwise the needle bearings don't get a chance to rotate and just brinnel themselves into the shaft or housing. The plain bearing type will work fine.
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Tue, Feb 19, 2013 2:22 AM
cojhl2
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Reply to Old Magnet:
I would not recommend u-joints if they are the needle bearing type unless there is an offset (significant) to the shaft. Otherwise the needle bearings don't get a chance to rotate and just brinnel themselves into the shaft or housing. The plain bearing type will work fine.
What I was thinking of is simple joint made up of thick belting connected with right angle flats. My 544 International has this type and it works quite well.

But in addition it has a splined shaft so you can take the fan belt off. Without visiting Old Magnet's suggested Hub city I have/had no idea where to find that.

Yea, I agree ccjersey, the pump mount is tough but I thought I could build the necessary brackets from underneath the core support.

Now, from information from both you guys it looks like I'm going to have to remove the radiator. I was hoping to bypass that task.

That drive shaft for the #44 pump is way more than I thought I would need.

Anyway, guys keep me in your sights. I appreciate your help for sure. I am now going to Hub City.

I guess I could have a machine shop build 1/2 the u-joint and bole it on with the pulley center bolt.

What I am trying to do is get as much lined up before I get out there so I can get this thing together.
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Tue, Feb 19, 2013 9:08 AM
cojhl2
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Reply to Old Magnet:
I would not recommend u-joints if they are the needle bearing type unless there is an offset (significant) to the shaft. Otherwise the needle bearings don't get a chance to rotate and just brinnel themselves into the shaft or housing. The plain bearing type will work fine.


BTW, that is correct. I remember that prob with some of the early 9U's where the engine was too closely lined up with the transmission.
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Tue, Feb 19, 2013 9:09 AM
neil
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Reply to cojhl2:


BTW, that is correct. I remember that prob with some of the early 9U's where the engine was too closely lined up with the transmission.
The joint you want (and I'm not talking waccy baccy...) is a Lovejoy-type - a three piece device where two pieces are attached to each side of the connection, and in between them is a slightly flexible piece that transmits the torque while permitting a certain amount of misalignment (like, not much). Google "lovejoy coupling". There is a Lovejoy brand but there are others as well where you can get them very cheap in all sorts of sizes.
The bit I'm not sure about is, can you take a shaft straight out in line with the crank? I though the radiator bottom tank was in the way?
Cheers,
Neil
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Tue, Feb 19, 2013 9:24 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to neil:
The joint you want (and I'm not talking waccy baccy...) is a Lovejoy-type - a three piece device where two pieces are attached to each side of the connection, and in between them is a slightly flexible piece that transmits the torque while permitting a certain amount of misalignment (like, not much). Google "lovejoy coupling". There is a Lovejoy brand but there are others as well where you can get them very cheap in all sorts of sizes.
The bit I'm not sure about is, can you take a shaft straight out in line with the crank? I though the radiator bottom tank was in the way?
Cheers,
Neil
I'd be inclined to look into a chain coupling w/cover if you have the room.
I've had problems with Lovejoy couplings spitting out the rubber spiders when you get to higher torque applications unless you go to the large models which again may be a space problem.

The rag joint that I think your referring to would probably work, depending on what pump pressure your using.
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Tue, Feb 19, 2013 9:37 AM
drujinin
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Reply to Old Magnet:
I'd be inclined to look into a chain coupling w/cover if you have the room.
I've had problems with Lovejoy couplings spitting out the rubber spiders when you get to higher torque applications unless you go to the large models which again may be a space problem.

The rag joint that I think your referring to would probably work, depending on what pump pressure your using.
There is a "service crank" that can be installed on a D2 which means the through hole in the bottom radiator tank is inline with the crankshaft.
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Tue, Feb 19, 2013 6:18 PM
neil
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Reply to drujinin:
There is a "service crank" that can be installed on a D2 which means the through hole in the bottom radiator tank is inline with the crankshaft.
Thanks Jeff, that's what I need to get organized for my 3J.
Cheers,
Neil.
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Wed, Feb 20, 2013 8:49 AM
mog5858
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Reply to neil:
Thanks Jeff, that's what I need to get organized for my 3J.
Cheers,
Neil.
can i ask why you are going to switch from having the hydraulic pump from belt driven off crankshaft pulley to front engine inline with crankshaft. dose the belt not rated for the hp need to run a pump? i was thinking about taking off the gen and making the pump sit there nice and out of the way but is there a problem with in doing this? thanks
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Thu, Feb 21, 2013 1:25 AM
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