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How many plates in the pony pinion clutch?

How many plates in the pony pinion clutch?

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AaronH
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All,

I'm working on the pony pinion clutch assy for one of my D2-5U's. When I got it the clutch seemed to be locked up. I thought it was due to rust. I filled it with diesel and let it sit. I subscribe to one of Murphy's laws: "If it doesn't work, force it. If it breaks, it needed fixing anyway." So I forced it. Well, it broke. The plate with the hole pattern that the spider locks into broke into three pieces. I got a replacement and I have started to put it back together. However, I have run into a problem. My clutch assembly has the cone brake, not the 3 disc brake. My D2 parts manual only shows the 3 disc brake version. The parts guy at my local Cat dealer and I dug through his old parts manuals and found that the D4 manual has three different clutch assemblies with the cone brake. The difference between the 3 assemblies is 4, 5, or 6 steel and bronze clutch plates. When I tore my clutch apart 6 plates came out. When I put it back together with all 6 steel and 6 bronze discs in the clutch the whole thing locks up tight as a drum just like it was before I broke it. With the 6 disc set I cannot compress the disc stack at all, period! I've experimented with various combination of plates. 4 steel and 4 bronze the whole stack is loose and sloppy. The spider doesn't engage the discs at all. With 5 steel and 4 bronze the spider engages the stack but not very much. You can very easily slide the collar back and forth with no snap. 4 steel and 5 bronze plates has a little snap on the collar, but not a lot. With 5 steel and 5 copper plates I can compress the discs with the spider by pushing on the collar, however, I cannot get the collar to snap over. I don't have the whole assembly together yet so I am just pushing on the collar as hard as I can with both hands (not using the lever handle). Should I be able to get the clutch to snap by hand without the lever or will it be too difficult? I want to get the right about of plates in it before I put it all together because I really don't want to have to tear it all down again. How do I know what combination is correct? According to the parts pages from the d4 book the plate will all of the holes has a different thickness for the 4, 5, and 6 disc sets. The replacement plate I got is the same as the one I broke, but I have no idea if the broke plate was correct to start with. For all I know someone has put together a hodge-podge of parts. I can tell that someone has definitely been inside of this clutch. How do I figure out which disc combination is correct?

Hopefully this all makes sense. My situation is rather hard to describe.


An interesting note: when I engage the pony clutch on my other D2 it doesn't snap over either. It engages well, but I have to hold the lever because I cannot get it to snap.

Thanks,
Aaron
Operating a sanctuary for all things rusty or broken. Current residents include: Allis Chalmers WD45, Oliver Row 77, two Cat D2's, Clark C500-80 forklift, and a wounded Kubota.
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Sat, May 24, 2014 9:04 AM
gemdozer
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1 cluchs model --6discs 2a3616 and 6 discs 3b5471 and 1plate 2a3624
2--3discs 2a3616 4discs 3b5471 and 2a3624 and the plate with holes change for 6h5835 she has not the same tickness
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Sat, May 24, 2014 4:55 PM
English Al
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Reply to gemdozer:
1 cluchs model --6discs 2a3616 and 6 discs 3b5471 and 1plate 2a3624
2--3discs 2a3616 4discs 3b5471 and 2a3624 and the plate with holes change for 6h5835 she has not the same tickness
You will have to give us a serial number of your D2 you are working on, 5U series uses 3 different set ups
main diferences are number of discs, shaft and cone engagement cage.
Unfortunately all my pictures are on microfisce or I would post pictures Cheers Al
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Sat, May 24, 2014 8:38 PM
AaronH
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Reply to English Al:
You will have to give us a serial number of your D2 you are working on, 5U series uses 3 different set ups
main diferences are number of discs, shaft and cone engagement cage.
Unfortunately all my pictures are on microfisce or I would post pictures Cheers Al
5u484. my d2 parts book for all d2's only shows one pinion clutch option and it has brake discs. This clutch assembly has a cone brake and we had to look at the d4 parts book to find cone disc pinion assemblies.[hr]
Operating a sanctuary for all things rusty or broken. Current residents include: Allis Chalmers WD45, Oliver Row 77, two Cat D2's, Clark C500-80 forklift, and a wounded Kubota.
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Sat, May 24, 2014 8:46 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to AaronH:
5u484. my d2 parts book for all d2's only shows one pinion clutch option and it has brake discs. This clutch assembly has a cone brake and we had to look at the d4 parts book to find cone disc pinion assemblies.[hr]
Apparently someone has mixed/matched later components on your early unit. This should help explain...
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Sat, May 24, 2014 8:55 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Apparently someone has mixed/matched later components on your early unit. This should help explain...
Here are the three different versions...
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Sat, May 24, 2014 9:13 PM
AaronH
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Here are the three different versions...
Thanks for the information. That's very helpful. I took the shaft and clutch pack assembly to my uncle and showed it to him. He is wise in the ways of mechanical things. I believe he identified the mistake I was making. I thought that the spider needed to be threaded all the way onto the shaft until it was tight against the shoulder of the shaft. He says not so. I believe the guy that worked on it last made the same mistake. That's why the clutch was tight as a drum when I got it. The spider needs to be threaded down and the detent pin locked it the correct hole where the clutch is free to spin when released but compresses enough to snap over. So, it looks like this setup is supposed to have all 12 discs, but needs to be adjusted appropriately. I don't think any of my books talk about an adjustment procedure. Are there instructions out there that tell you how to set the clutch up properly?

Thanks,
Aaron
Operating a sanctuary for all things rusty or broken. Current residents include: Allis Chalmers WD45, Oliver Row 77, two Cat D2's, Clark C500-80 forklift, and a wounded Kubota.
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Sun, May 25, 2014 7:40 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to AaronH:
Thanks for the information. That's very helpful. I took the shaft and clutch pack assembly to my uncle and showed it to him. He is wise in the ways of mechanical things. I believe he identified the mistake I was making. I thought that the spider needed to be threaded all the way onto the shaft until it was tight against the shoulder of the shaft. He says not so. I believe the guy that worked on it last made the same mistake. That's why the clutch was tight as a drum when I got it. The spider needs to be threaded down and the detent pin locked it the correct hole where the clutch is free to spin when released but compresses enough to snap over. So, it looks like this setup is supposed to have all 12 discs, but needs to be adjusted appropriately. I don't think any of my books talk about an adjustment procedure. Are there instructions out there that tell you how to set the clutch up properly?

Thanks,
Aaron
Very simple adjustment.....early units have a pipe plug instead of two bolt cover.
Info is found in Operations & Maintenance Manual
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Sun, May 25, 2014 7:53 AM
gemdozer
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Very simple adjustment.....early units have a pipe plug instead of two bolt cover.
Info is found in Operations & Maintenance Manual
Make sure before reinstaling the cluch ass than the collar in not going too far in the brake cage
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Sun, May 25, 2014 5:27 PM
AaronH
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Reply to gemdozer:
Make sure before reinstaling the cluch ass than the collar in not going too far in the brake cage
OM, thanks for the Operator's manual page. That's the one book I don't have, which explains why I couldn't find an adjusting procedure. However, I would have thought it would have been more scientific than "The lever should go into position with a distinct snap, and should require a reasonably hard push."

I was fully prepared to do some sort of measuring, or turn the spider to a certain point and back off a certain amount of turn(s). I guess it's not that involved.
Operating a sanctuary for all things rusty or broken. Current residents include: Allis Chalmers WD45, Oliver Row 77, two Cat D2's, Clark C500-80 forklift, and a wounded Kubota.
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Sun, May 25, 2014 8:37 PM
AaronH
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Reply to AaronH:
OM, thanks for the Operator's manual page. That's the one book I don't have, which explains why I couldn't find an adjusting procedure. However, I would have thought it would have been more scientific than "The lever should go into position with a distinct snap, and should require a reasonably hard push."

I was fully prepared to do some sort of measuring, or turn the spider to a certain point and back off a certain amount of turn(s). I guess it's not that involved.
We're making progress now! The pinion assembly is back in the tractor. We're ready to set the pony back on. Perhaps tomorrow if I get time. The lever mechanism that engages the pinion starter gear to the diesel flywheel had issues that needed to be addressed as well. Whomever took it apart before let the mechanism slide back too far and the guide rod fell out of its hole. That let the mechanism rotate out of place, so it was jammed up. I managed to get it back into position. I had to straighten the guide rod because it was bent slightly. The key was missing out of the engagement lever as well. So the lever would spin on the shaft. The keyway was beat up so bad there was no way of putting a key back in without welding it up and cutting a new keyway. So, I put the lever on the shaft and put it in the drill press. I drilled a hole through both pieces and used a grade-8 1/4-20 bolt as a shear pin. Not necessarily the correct fix, but a lot faster than fixing the keyway. If figure I"m about a half a day from being able to roll the diesel over. I know the diesel runs because we pull started it to get it on the trailer. It had a heck of an oil leak spraying out of the front of the diesel somewhere. So, once I get the diesel rolling over I hopefully should be able to find where the oil leak is and fix it.
Operating a sanctuary for all things rusty or broken. Current residents include: Allis Chalmers WD45, Oliver Row 77, two Cat D2's, Clark C500-80 forklift, and a wounded Kubota.
Please log in or create an account to join the conversation.
Mon, May 26, 2014 9:52 AM
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