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How do I free an age-seized engine on a D7 3T?

How do I free an age-seized engine on a D7 3T?

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mccsl
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Thanks in large part to members of this forum back in 2008, I was finally able to get the old 12 8T grader running after over 10 years of sitting (filed pony mag points, cleaned gas tank and carb, etc). This past weekend we used it to pull the D7 3T dozer with stuck engine (also sitting for many years) to see if the tracks would turn. Indeed they did, but lightly engaging the clutch a few times failed to turn the engine. Not a big surprise. The D7 pony is trashed, but the diesel ran good when parked.

I assume that next I need to get diesel, PB Blaster, ATF, or something into the cylinders to losen the rings. I'm looking for advice to do so. The most obvious route is through the injector ports, but I'm not sure how to remove the injectors? Do the valve covers need to come off? Or is it possible to dump it down the exaust manifold, possibly directing it to each exhaust valve with a tube, then manually opening the exaust valves?

Any advice you be appreciated. Thanks!
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Tue, Oct 19, 2010 12:24 AM
SpragueM
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I have over the last several years, come across this situation several times. In each instance it turned out to be the fuel pump. Seems as though water get's into the small gears and they lock up. Those small pumps can really hold up the engine rotation. They all seem to free up fairly easily though upon dis assembly.
Hope it as easy as that for you.

Matt
RD4,RD6 ,D73T, #11 Grader, 977F
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Tue, Oct 19, 2010 7:38 AM
mccsl
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Reply to SpragueM:
I have over the last several years, come across this situation several times. In each instance it turned out to be the fuel pump. Seems as though water get's into the small gears and they lock up. Those small pumps can really hold up the engine rotation. They all seem to free up fairly easily though upon dis assembly.
Hope it as easy as that for you.

Matt
Matt,

Thanks for the quick reply. Is it the transfer or injection pump? If it's the injector pump, can I take the cover off the side of the fuel pump to inspect it, or will it need to be fully disassembled? The exhaust has been covered so if the rings are stuck as well I doubt it's too bad.

Sam
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Tue, Oct 19, 2010 10:20 AM
8C 361
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I like your idea of pouring diesel down the exaust manifold and opening the exaust valves. You want to see the valves are free anyhow. Is there a cover where you could get a bar on the ring gear? If you can rock the crank at all it might be the gear.
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Tue, Oct 19, 2010 2:50 PM
SpragueM
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Reply to 8C 361:
I like your idea of pouring diesel down the exaust manifold and opening the exaust valves. You want to see the valves are free anyhow. Is there a cover where you could get a bar on the ring gear? If you can rock the crank at all it might be the gear.
Transfer pump is the one that I am referring to. I would also recommend removing the valve covers. Moving the decompression only lifts half the valves so it is not the best way to go. Tap on each of the valve tops and make sure they move. Getting some lubricant on top of the pistons is ideal.
We recently had a combine motor seize solid between harvest's. Even after removing the head I was unable to get it to move. Had to tear down the entire motor.

Matt
RD4,RD6 ,D73T, #11 Grader, 977F
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Tue, Oct 19, 2010 11:55 PM
ccjersey
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The decompression mechanism usually only opens the intake valves. If you want to put it in that way, you need to pour it in the intake. Bumping the exhaust valves would be easier if the exhaust manifold is not cracked or something. Might want to ensure that there's not water in there anyway by cracking the oil pan plug.

I kept filling my stuck 5J by pouring the fuel down the air cleaner intake until I got it to start coming out the oil pan plug. I haven't been back to it to see if it has loosened up in the year or two since I did it.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Wed, Oct 20, 2010 7:32 AM
handhewn
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Reply to ccjersey:
The decompression mechanism usually only opens the intake valves. If you want to put it in that way, you need to pour it in the intake. Bumping the exhaust valves would be easier if the exhaust manifold is not cracked or something. Might want to ensure that there's not water in there anyway by cracking the oil pan plug.

I kept filling my stuck 5J by pouring the fuel down the air cleaner intake until I got it to start coming out the oil pan plug. I haven't been back to it to see if it has loosened up in the year or two since I did it.
I tried for two years to free a stuck engine. I told a friend (very old mechanic) and he said "pour in a can of coke or pepsi and turn it over tomorrow". I tried it and it actually worked. I asked a chemist friend of mine about this and he said the soda would break the rust without hurting anything else. Anyway it worked very well for me.
Handhewn
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Fri, Oct 22, 2010 10:01 PM
zootownjeepguy
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Reply to handhewn:
I tried for two years to free a stuck engine. I told a friend (very old mechanic) and he said "pour in a can of coke or pepsi and turn it over tomorrow". I tried it and it actually worked. I asked a chemist friend of mine about this and he said the soda would break the rust without hurting anything else. Anyway it worked very well for me.
Handhewn
My D2 was stuck from sitting 5 or 6 years. Even though the exhaust was covered and there was a tarp over the dozer water still found it's way into the cylinders. I pulled the head to find most of the valves and seats rusted out and about 8 ounces of water on top of #2 and #3 pistons. I freed the engine with the old FIRE trick. Pour a little Gas and Diesel or ATF in each cylinder and let it burn off for 1/2 hour or so. The gas makes the fire and hot diesel fuel or ATF works it's way down the warm cylinder walls to help loosen the pistons (diesel doesn't burn very well unless it's atomized or compressed). This works every time but unfortunately involves pulling the head.
I would be careful to not pour too much fuel into the cylinders because if the engine is cranked (assuming it's freed up, that's optimism:thumb😊 it could hydraulic lock and possibly break something important and expensive.

Good Luck!
Rich Salvaggio
D2 5U9917
'46 Willys CJ2A Farm Jeep, '39 Buick sedan, '49 International KB-7, '37 Allis Chalmers WC, Cushman Scooter(s)
Antique garden tractors & outboard motors
Other rusty old junk comes & goes without warning.

The 2 most useful tools to have in your shop are a Crystal Ball and a Magic Wand
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Sat, Oct 23, 2010 6:31 AM
mccsl
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Reply to zootownjeepguy:
My D2 was stuck from sitting 5 or 6 years. Even though the exhaust was covered and there was a tarp over the dozer water still found it's way into the cylinders. I pulled the head to find most of the valves and seats rusted out and about 8 ounces of water on top of #2 and #3 pistons. I freed the engine with the old FIRE trick. Pour a little Gas and Diesel or ATF in each cylinder and let it burn off for 1/2 hour or so. The gas makes the fire and hot diesel fuel or ATF works it's way down the warm cylinder walls to help loosen the pistons (diesel doesn't burn very well unless it's atomized or compressed). This works every time but unfortunately involves pulling the head.
I would be careful to not pour too much fuel into the cylinders because if the engine is cranked (assuming it's freed up, that's optimism:thumb😊 it could hydraulic lock and possibly break something important and expensive.

Good Luck!
I'm going to try to get diesel onto the pistons in the next few weeks and let it sit a few weeks. Sounds like I should drain the pan and watch for diesel down below. I've also heard of the coke solution (it contains a mild acid), but it seems that in a fairly short time the acid will neutralize and leave water+sugar in the cylinders/crankcase. I'm afraid the water would end up doing more damage if not removed. I might try this after the diesel on an overnight basis.

Since the intake comes from the bottom (see photo), it looks easiest to direct it in through the exhaust, pulling the valve covers and opening the exhaust valves. This also offers the opportunity to inpect the rockers, etc and assess the damages. I'll also drop the transfer pump and check it out.
[attachment=7379]D7 Intake.jpg[/attachment]
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Wed, Oct 27, 2010 7:53 AM
bernie
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Reply to mccsl:
I'm going to try to get diesel onto the pistons in the next few weeks and let it sit a few weeks. Sounds like I should drain the pan and watch for diesel down below. I've also heard of the coke solution (it contains a mild acid), but it seems that in a fairly short time the acid will neutralize and leave water+sugar in the cylinders/crankcase. I'm afraid the water would end up doing more damage if not removed. I might try this after the diesel on an overnight basis.

Since the intake comes from the bottom (see photo), it looks easiest to direct it in through the exhaust, pulling the valve covers and opening the exhaust valves. This also offers the opportunity to inpect the rockers, etc and assess the damages. I'll also drop the transfer pump and check it out.
[attachment=7379]D7 Intake.jpg[/attachment]
Attachment
OK-I've been on this before for other scenarios, but has anyone ever tried melting beeswax into the cylinder? Maybe gas and ATF // Diesel serve the same purpose, but I have sure had good luck with beeswax on other froze up items.
Put some beeswax on the piston head and heat it with a propane torch-let it melt and see what happens after a short while. I think the beeswax would vaporize pretty quickly once you get it going...not sure about that.

I've seen the powers of pop too. I remember in a chemistry class our female instructor ripped a pop can in half bare handed. All she did was get a nail and scrape a circle on the inside of a pop can and swirled the last drink left in the can for just a few seconds. Ripped that puppy right in half. Try the beeswax first and let us know what happens. My instructor's name was Ms. Ireland. She was a real sweety, if you go looking for her to help. :bounce::bounce:
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Wed, Oct 27, 2010 8:22 AM
Bruce P
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Reply to bernie:
OK-I've been on this before for other scenarios, but has anyone ever tried melting beeswax into the cylinder? Maybe gas and ATF // Diesel serve the same purpose, but I have sure had good luck with beeswax on other froze up items.
Put some beeswax on the piston head and heat it with a propane torch-let it melt and see what happens after a short while. I think the beeswax would vaporize pretty quickly once you get it going...not sure about that.

I've seen the powers of pop too. I remember in a chemistry class our female instructor ripped a pop can in half bare handed. All she did was get a nail and scrape a circle on the inside of a pop can and swirled the last drink left in the can for just a few seconds. Ripped that puppy right in half. Try the beeswax first and let us know what happens. My instructor's name was Ms. Ireland. She was a real sweety, if you go looking for her to help. :bounce::bounce:
Another place to look is the water pump impeller rusted to the housing. A neighbor bought a three lunger that was stuck tight. They took the head off and found nothing wrong with the pistons. Luckily they found it when they took the water pump apart first before going to the front cover.

Keep in mind that this tractor had been sitting for a long time with no anti freeze. I would guess that if your tractor has good anti freeze then you could look else where.

Hope this helps and good luck.

Bruce
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Thu, Oct 28, 2010 9:10 PM
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