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Harmonic balancer? Loosing power but engine sounds good.. help

Harmonic balancer? Loosing power but engine sounds good.. help

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norcalisdank
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Hello I have a D6 4R runs great or at least used too. Just lately it has been loosing power to the small piles of brush, like it is really weak. This machine starts up and runs like a champ everyday. My neighbor said its the harmonic balancer up in front is messed up/ going out and that can mess with the engine. thanks for all info! here's a pick of the cable center up in front. [attachment=22141]rps20140314_185610.jpg[/attachment]
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Sat, Mar 15, 2014 9:13 AM
rmyram
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Those units have a dry clutch and it may be that your clutch needs adjusted. is the engine loading down? or will the tractor just not push? if the engine isn't lugging down but the tractor won't push check the clutch adjustment. it should "snap" in, there is a spec of how many pounds force is needed to get the clutch to "snap" over centre, don't have it in front of me.

If the engine is lugging down and seems to be underpowered, i would check the fuel pressure first, if it is smoking black smoke then check the air filter. Can't see how the vibration dampener would affect power, it will cause vibration.
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Sat, Mar 15, 2014 10:34 AM
norcalisdank
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Reply to rmyram:
Those units have a dry clutch and it may be that your clutch needs adjusted. is the engine loading down? or will the tractor just not push? if the engine isn't lugging down but the tractor won't push check the clutch adjustment. it should "snap" in, there is a spec of how many pounds force is needed to get the clutch to "snap" over centre, don't have it in front of me.

If the engine is lugging down and seems to be underpowered, i would check the fuel pressure first, if it is smoking black smoke then check the air filter. Can't see how the vibration dampener would affect power, it will cause vibration.
the tractor will not push. I believe the clutch does needs adjusting but I didn't think that played any part in it. ok will do. and I believe fuel pressure is good and so is air filter. it has to be the clutch then. thanks a bunch!
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Sat, Mar 15, 2014 10:55 AM
tctractors
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Reply to norcalisdank:
the tractor will not push. I believe the clutch does needs adjusting but I didn't think that played any part in it. ok will do. and I believe fuel pressure is good and so is air filter. it has to be the clutch then. thanks a bunch!
This engine does not have a Harmonic Balancer fitted, tell your pal from next door.
tctractors
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Sat, Mar 15, 2014 2:11 PM
rmyram
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Not trying to argue, but.....

My service manual for d6 4r,5r shows one available for the d4600 in the front, and my parts book shows one fitted to the engine as well, 6b6669 is the part number.

i thought, "there is no way that old engine has a harmonic balancer" but i checked my books and thy were originally fitted with one.

Check your clutch, most likely the culprit.
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Sat, Mar 15, 2014 8:18 PM
tctractors
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Reply to rmyram:
Not trying to argue, but.....

My service manual for d6 4r,5r shows one available for the d4600 in the front, and my parts book shows one fitted to the engine as well, 6b6669 is the part number.

i thought, "there is no way that old engine has a harmonic balancer" but i checked my books and thy were originally fitted with one.

Check your clutch, most likely the culprit.
It Just might be a "Damper" if its on the front of the crank its a Damper, harmonic balancers can be found in CAT 330c's 3304's 6 cylinder engines are not usualy fitted with this sort of control.
tctractors,

A Damper is a total differing item used to control the speeding of the crank upon firing of the cylinders etc, CAT used Lanchester style Balance shafts spinning at X2 crank speed as a way of Harmonic control on engines the last of the 4 pot D7's had them also, a picture of the parts book might help some, it might help me? but if its stuck on the front of the crank its a Damper.
tctractors
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Sun, Mar 16, 2014 3:18 AM
ccjersey
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I'm really surprised that the D4600 would have had a damper fitted. The D318 that succeeded it does not, at least on any of the versions I have ever seen which only include the engine in a U series tractor and an industrial (crane) engine.

Must have been fitted in response to a problem with bearing life or crankshaft breakage.

I agree with TC, even if it has one on it, it should not make a difference in how the tractor pulls (unless the crankshaft breaks). Seems like I saw a place online that can refurbish dampers, I should have book marked it.

Lots of other things that can cause your problem.

You need to determine whether it is an engine power problem:
fuel..plenty of it, injected at the correct time, injector spray quality and pattern are correct.
Air....plenty of it
mechanical efficiency..........blow-by gasses out the crankcase breather not excessive or "puffing"
or a power transmission problem:
Main clutch slipping...... oiled from engine or transmission leakage and not drained regularly or simply needing adjusting
Steering clutches slipping......worn out, oiled, linkage jammed up by trash in the levers or needing free travel adjusted
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Sun, Mar 16, 2014 4:38 AM
rmyram
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Thank you gentleman, TCTractor and CCjersey,

I did not realize there was a difference between a vibration dampener and a harmonic balancer, you are quite correct, i checked my parts book again and it is called a dampener assembly, not a harmonic balancer.

i also checked my d318 book, and my 9u/8u parts books and they are only fitted with a pulley on the nose of the crank.
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Sun, Mar 16, 2014 8:43 AM
BillWalter
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Reply to rmyram:
Thank you gentleman, TCTractor and CCjersey,

I did not realize there was a difference between a vibration dampener and a harmonic balancer, you are quite correct, i checked my parts book again and it is called a dampener assembly, not a harmonic balancer.

i also checked my d318 book, and my 9u/8u parts books and they are only fitted with a pulley on the nose of the crank.
Harmonic balancers and vibration balancers are one of the same. They are similar to a flywheel in that they protect the crankshaft from twisting and breaking. When engines became more powerful, they were used. Like when an old D 8 was made into a "H P", High Horsepower unit.

The engine balancer used on 4 cylinder engines, like later D 315 and D 339 is a device to keep the engine from bouncing (vibrating) up and down. This is commom on any 4 cylinder engine or a V8 that is any degree less than a 45o, example D336. On a 3408, which is less than a 45o engine, they fooled the engine to think it is a 90o by off setting the crank journal at each adjoing rod bearing. Buick had already done that on a V6 engine. Now, with that said!! Go to bed and sleep tight! Bill Walter
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Sun, Mar 16, 2014 9:23 AM
edb
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Reply to BillWalter:
Harmonic balancers and vibration balancers are one of the same. They are similar to a flywheel in that they protect the crankshaft from twisting and breaking. When engines became more powerful, they were used. Like when an old D 8 was made into a "H P", High Horsepower unit.

The engine balancer used on 4 cylinder engines, like later D 315 and D 339 is a device to keep the engine from bouncing (vibrating) up and down. This is commom on any 4 cylinder engine or a V8 that is any degree less than a 45o, example D336. On a 3408, which is less than a 45o engine, they fooled the engine to think it is a 90o by off setting the crank journal at each adjoing rod bearing. Buick had already done that on a V6 engine. Now, with that said!! Go to bed and sleep tight! Bill Walter
Hi Team,
from a Service Magazine dated May 15 1967. The article is on this very subject.
It is a bit in-depth to start with but goes on thru the differences--the Harmonic Vibration Damper is discussed later in the article.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.

PS looks like we are back to the BB posting out of order again.
The pix are numbered for ID sequence :- 1 thru 3--sorry.
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Mon, Mar 17, 2014 6:59 AM
Rome K/G
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Reply to edb:
Hi Team,
from a Service Magazine dated May 15 1967. The article is on this very subject.
It is a bit in-depth to start with but goes on thru the differences--the Harmonic Vibration Damper is discussed later in the article.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eddie B.

PS looks like we are back to the BB posting out of order again.
The pix are numbered for ID sequence :- 1 thru 3--sorry.
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Tell your neighbor no, it has a harmonic exhaust, it plays the most beautiful music an engine can make! lol
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Mon, Mar 17, 2014 8:06 AM
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