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hard starting 3306 in a D6C 10k

hard starting 3306 in a D6C 10k

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rmyram
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Can anybody shed some light as to why a d6c 10 k with a 3306 in it would be hard starting? the glow plugs work, it acts like it looses prime after sitting overnight, once it is running, it restarts right away throughout the day, leave it overnight and you have to crank it for an extended period before it will catch and run.

does anyone have any info or scans of the injection system?

thanks
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Tue, Dec 23, 2014 3:16 AM
Old Magnet
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What's the s/n? Scroll or Sleeve Metering pump?
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Tue, Dec 23, 2014 4:37 AM
catsilver
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Reply to Old Magnet:
What's the s/n? Scroll or Sleeve Metering pump?
Does it start better if you use the hand primer first, what is the ambient temperature and how long do you actually use the glow plugs?
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Tue, Dec 23, 2014 6:25 AM
OzDozer
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Reply to catsilver:
Does it start better if you use the hand primer first, what is the ambient temperature and how long do you actually use the glow plugs?
Roger, have you checked to see if the fuel tank filler cap breather is blocked?
Next on the list is fuel line blockage. I often had problems with fine fluff from rags, rust, dirt, and other debris, blocking the 90° elbows in the fuel line.
Third is checking for fuel line corrosion. The steel fuel line is prone to corrosion where it runs close to the chassis and where dirt buildup is holding moisture in.
The corrosion will create pinholes in the fuel line, that don't leak very much (just a weep) - but the pinholes admit air to the fuel system, and create hard starting after being stopped for short time.

Regards. Ron.
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Tue, Dec 23, 2014 7:00 AM
edb
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Reply to OzDozer:
Roger, have you checked to see if the fuel tank filler cap breather is blocked?
Next on the list is fuel line blockage. I often had problems with fine fluff from rags, rust, dirt, and other debris, blocking the 90° elbows in the fuel line.
Third is checking for fuel line corrosion. The steel fuel line is prone to corrosion where it runs close to the chassis and where dirt buildup is holding moisture in.
The corrosion will create pinholes in the fuel line, that don't leak very much (just a weep) - but the pinholes admit air to the fuel system, and create hard starting after being stopped for short time.

Regards. Ron.
Hi Roger,
if this engine has the Sleeve Metering fuel injection pump--the one with the big side cover plate with many 1/4" bolts-- it will need bleeding at the governor housing --where the set point electrical connector is.

You need to loosen the top bolt on the odd shaped housing and get the gasket to release so that the gravity, or hand pump-- fuel pressure can force out air that becomes trapped in the Gov. Hsg.
This air builds up over time so much so that when cranking the transfer pump needs to pressurise/compress the air so the fuel level in the pump comes above the injection pump inlet ports so it can then inject and start the engine.

Cannot recall if the D6 has a return orifice check valve fitting that returns some 9 GPH of fuel/air back to the tank--I feel they do not but I mention it if so fitted to check for blockage.
Attachment below should help.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Attachment
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Tue, Dec 23, 2014 9:06 AM
rmyram
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thanks for the replies,

I do not know the serial number, just that it is a 3306 in a d6c, and that the prefix is 10k, tractor is 600 miles away,

the owner says the injection pump looks like the one eddie pictured, so he will try that first.

ambient temp in the summer is usually 15 c +/- 10 degrees, winter time he doesn't try to start it unless it is around 0c as the batteries don't have enough to give it a good long glow plug session and crank the engine the required extra time to get it to catch and take off, he does not use ether on the engine ever to get it to start.

fuel system is otherwise in good shape, owner is extremely fussy about keeping fuel clean, filters changed etc, I have many times received a kick in the bum for not cleaning the fuel nozzle from the storage/slip tanks before adding fuel to the tractors, also was required to clean the filler neck before removing the cap to prevent dirt ingression when removing filler cap.
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Tue, Dec 23, 2014 1:21 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to edb:
Hi Roger,
if this engine has the Sleeve Metering fuel injection pump--the one with the big side cover plate with many 1/4" bolts-- it will need bleeding at the governor housing --where the set point electrical connector is.

You need to loosen the top bolt on the odd shaped housing and get the gasket to release so that the gravity, or hand pump-- fuel pressure can force out air that becomes trapped in the Gov. Hsg.
This air builds up over time so much so that when cranking the transfer pump needs to pressurise/compress the air so the fuel level in the pump comes above the injection pump inlet ports so it can then inject and start the engine.

Cannot recall if the D6 has a return orifice check valve fitting that returns some 9 GPH of fuel/air back to the tank--I feel they do not but I mention it if so fitted to check for blockage.
Attachment below should help.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Attachment
If it is sleeve metering it probably has a constant bleed valve that edb mentions. Normally only flows when fuel pressure in housing is 25 to 32 psi.
If it leaks it will drain off the pressure which will have to be re-established on start.
The bleed valve is built in to the elbow fitting coming off the pump with the line going back to the fuel tank.
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Tue, Dec 23, 2014 1:25 PM
bluox
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Reply to Old Magnet:
If it is sleeve metering it probably has a constant bleed valve that edb mentions. Normally only flows when fuel pressure in housing is 25 to 32 psi.
If it leaks it will drain off the pressure which will have to be re-established on start.
The bleed valve is built in to the elbow fitting coming off the pump with the line going back to the fuel tank.
Replace the batteries ,it takes 2-3 minutes of glow plug heating at those temp. to lite off fuel and the faster the motor spins the better it will start.Are you using a 10w30 or 15w40 oil? PC engines are always hard starting in cold weather.
Bob
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Tue, Dec 23, 2014 6:37 PM
D6c10K
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Reply to bluox:
Replace the batteries ,it takes 2-3 minutes of glow plug heating at those temp. to lite off fuel and the faster the motor spins the better it will start.Are you using a 10w30 or 15w40 oil? PC engines are always hard starting in cold weather.
Bob
If it's like the sleeve metering setup on my 10K there isn't any return line to the fuel tank.
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Tue, Dec 23, 2014 8:55 PM
JoeWestfall
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Reply to D6c10K:
If it's like the sleeve metering setup on my 10K there isn't any return line to the fuel tank.
Hi, Does the engine have a fuel water separator element mounted
before the injection pump?
These were prone to sucking air at the oring mounts on the element
itself.
Joe W
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Tue, Dec 23, 2014 11:10 PM
83Jim
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Reply to Old Magnet:
If it is sleeve metering it probably has a constant bleed valve that edb mentions. Normally only flows when fuel pressure in housing is 25 to 32 psi.
If it leaks it will drain off the pressure which will have to be re-established on start.
The bleed valve is built in to the elbow fitting coming off the pump with the line going back to the fuel tank.
[quote="Old Magnet"]If it is sleeve metering it probably has a constant bleed valve that edb mentions. Normally only flows when fuel pressure in housing is 25 to 32 psi.
If it leaks it will drain off the pressure which will have to be re-established on start.
The bleed valve is built in to the elbow fitting coming off the pump with the line going back to the fuel tank.[/quote]

I think the 3304 in my D4D also has the sleeve metering system. It had a similar issue which was cured by replacing a pressure/drain valve inside the unit. It is accessed by removing the side cover plate and was in the lower left corner.
You only need two tools in life - WD-40 and Duct tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40 If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
.
Cat D4D 83J w 3304 PC engine, FOPS, s/t blade, D4F winch, air ride seat, "wobble" stick blade lever and D8H control panel
Cat 920 62K w 3304 PC engine, FOPS, 4 in 1 bucket
1995 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 RCSB Cummins 5 speed
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Wed, Dec 24, 2014 12:35 AM
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