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Guess Why!

Guess Why!

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Gregness
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Now that I have your attention, here is what I am trying to figure out...

My D2 does this: When running at idle, it occasionally puffs blue smoke- just a couple puffs then it is clear again. Then a little bit later, it does it again. Under higher throttle settings it runs perfectly clear all the time- no blue smoke, and does not even get black under heavy load (needs governor adjustment?).

So, I ask myself, why is it doing this? Here are my theories, in order of perceived likeliness.

A. Exhaust valve guides and seals need replacing: Oil pools up on the head and then washes down the guide(s) when it gets high enough; this drains it, and then it slowly pools up until it does it again. At higher rpm the higher pressures keep the oil from running down the guides.

B. Rings are going, but at higher rpm there is enough pressure to keep blowing the oil back down the cylinder walls and/or the rings provide better sealing then. (Would not explain the intermittent nature of the issue- unless it maybe just one cylinder that is bad)

Note that this condition persists after several hours of running with a moderate load on the machine.

History: Grampa and his sidekick Bill pulled the head and had it completely re-done in the 1980's. (I have the receipts). New valves, guides, seals, had it milled, the works. They also pulled the pistons out through the bottom and replaced the rings. Nobody can tell me how much the cylinders looked worn at that time, obviously not bad enough to do a bore job. Machine has probably no more than 1000 hours since then.

One other note: Dad tells me that they ALWAYS have had to use ether to get her to start from cold, before and after the rebuild. My experience has been the same. (I suspect this is a low compression issue, though you would think new rings and valves would have fixed it.)Since I had the lift pump rebuilt (thanks Walt) and put in new FI nozzles and pumps, she seems to run pretty strong- I think. The other day I was pushing over a 10" pine tree and it spun the tracks rather than stalled, for whatever that's worth.

Can't wait to hear your ideas! I really hope that another head rebuild would solve things, as I really do not want to pull the lower end and buy new pistons etc. Machine has excellent oil pressure.

Greg
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Fri, Nov 25, 2016 1:16 AM
Machias cat
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You didn't say so I am going to ask. ....

After fixing the lift pump and the installation of the new fuel injectors and pumps... did you inspect for and adjust the fuel injection pump lift height to factory setting?

This is not good: "Dad tells me that they ALWAYS have had to use ether to get her to start from cold, before and after the rebuild. My experience has been the same."

On a warm summer day, that D2 should fire up easily without a visit from the ether bunny.

What is the blowby out of the engine under load? At idle?
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Fri, Nov 25, 2016 2:05 AM
old-iron-habit
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Reply to Machias cat:
You didn't say so I am going to ask. ....

After fixing the lift pump and the installation of the new fuel injectors and pumps... did you inspect for and adjust the fuel injection pump lift height to factory setting?

This is not good: "Dad tells me that they ALWAYS have had to use ether to get her to start from cold, before and after the rebuild. My experience has been the same."

On a warm summer day, that D2 should fire up easily without a visit from the ether bunny.

What is the blowby out of the engine under load? At idle?
These machine were not designed to run at idle. What is the engine temp when idling? Is the t-stat in it so it holds proper engine temp? They easily start slobbering if run much without being opened up and with load. I would work the crap out of it and see what happens. It might not even have seated rings if it has never been worked.
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Fri, Nov 25, 2016 4:23 AM
mog5858
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Reply to old-iron-habit:
These machine were not designed to run at idle. What is the engine temp when idling? Is the t-stat in it so it holds proper engine temp? They easily start slobbering if run much without being opened up and with load. I would work the crap out of it and see what happens. It might not even have seated rings if it has never been worked.
I would say it need's to run hotter. I have heard that the toy cat's if not doing a hard days work day in and day out they get to slobbering. But if you change the thermostat out to say a 190 it help with all things. As to the starting thing one you not weighting till things are warm or more like it you need to adjust your Lachesis on the starter pinion as it does not sound like your pony it running at full speed. i would have to look it up but i the pony at full throttler runs 3600 rpm and you should be turning the main over at 600-650 rpm. just as a refresher go watch he also got some grate info on starter pinon stuff as well. good luck keep us posted

https://youtu.be/Jcz7qPz8QTE
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Fri, Nov 25, 2016 6:32 AM
cojhl2
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Reply to old-iron-habit:
These machine were not designed to run at idle. What is the engine temp when idling? Is the t-stat in it so it holds proper engine temp? They easily start slobbering if run much without being opened up and with load. I would work the crap out of it and see what happens. It might not even have seated rings if it has never been worked.


Excellent point. Unlike a three cyl which we let idle way down, we never let a 6cyl idle any less than 9-1000.
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Fri, Nov 25, 2016 12:38 PM
caterpillar13
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Reply to mog5858:
I would say it need's to run hotter. I have heard that the toy cat's if not doing a hard days work day in and day out they get to slobbering. But if you change the thermostat out to say a 190 it help with all things. As to the starting thing one you not weighting till things are warm or more like it you need to adjust your Lachesis on the starter pinion as it does not sound like your pony it running at full speed. i would have to look it up but i the pony at full throttler runs 3600 rpm and you should be turning the main over at 600-650 rpm. just as a refresher go watch he also got some grate info on starter pinon stuff as well. good luck keep us posted

https://youtu.be/Jcz7qPz8QTE
mine does that ,my dads has been doing it for 40 years
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Fri, Nov 25, 2016 12:42 PM
drujinin
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Reply to caterpillar13:
mine does that ,my dads has been doing it for 40 years
What weight Oil you are running?
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Fri, Nov 25, 2016 7:56 PM
edb
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Reply to drujinin:
What weight Oil you are running?
Hi Team,
with the pony running at Full Load Speed of 3,000 RPM, Hi Idle is higher at around 3400-3600 RPM, the main should be turning at around 335 RPM. Any less and starting will be difficult with these small diesel's.
Also compression is lost if the valve head heights are not within the specifications.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Attachment
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Sat, Nov 26, 2016 7:33 AM
TOGNOT
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Reply to edb:
Hi Team,
with the pony running at Full Load Speed of 3,000 RPM, Hi Idle is higher at around 3400-3600 RPM, the main should be turning at around 335 RPM. Any less and starting will be difficult with these small diesel's.
Also compression is lost if the valve head heights are not within the specifications.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
Attachment
Puffs a little blue smoke once in a while ? Unless you just enjoy taking things apart ( I understand !) why worry about it ? Tell me if I'm missing something but assuming proper water temp, oil pressure and power output... What's the problem ?

Not being a smarty pants... Just wondering
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Sat, Nov 26, 2016 8:29 AM
Gregness
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Reply to Machias cat:
You didn't say so I am going to ask. ....

After fixing the lift pump and the installation of the new fuel injectors and pumps... did you inspect for and adjust the fuel injection pump lift height to factory setting?

This is not good: "Dad tells me that they ALWAYS have had to use ether to get her to start from cold, before and after the rebuild. My experience has been the same."

On a warm summer day, that D2 should fire up easily without a visit from the ether bunny.

What is the blowby out of the engine under load? At idle?
[quote="Machias cat"]You didn't say so I am going to ask. ....

After fixing the lift pump and the installation of the new fuel injectors and pumps... did you inspect for and adjust the fuel injection pump lift height to factory setting?

This is not good: "Dad tells me that they ALWAYS have had to use ether to get her to start from cold, before and after the rebuild. My experience has been the same."

On a warm summer day, that D2 should fire up easily without a visit from the ether bunny.

What is the blowby out of the engine under load? At idle?[/quote]

I did adjust the FI timing by raising the lift to spec at the timing marks- ran much better after that!

Blow-by is not bad at all.
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Sun, Nov 27, 2016 1:48 AM
Gregness
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Reply to mog5858:
I would say it need's to run hotter. I have heard that the toy cat's if not doing a hard days work day in and day out they get to slobbering. But if you change the thermostat out to say a 190 it help with all things. As to the starting thing one you not weighting till things are warm or more like it you need to adjust your Lachesis on the starter pinion as it does not sound like your pony it running at full speed. i would have to look it up but i the pony at full throttler runs 3600 rpm and you should be turning the main over at 600-650 rpm. just as a refresher go watch he also got some grate info on starter pinon stuff as well. good luck keep us posted

https://youtu.be/Jcz7qPz8QTE
[quote="mog5858"]I would say it need's to run hotter. I have heard that the toy cat's if not doing a hard days work day in and day out they get to slobbering. But if you change the thermostat out to say a 190 it help with all things. As to the starting thing one you not weighting till things are warm or more like it you need to adjust your Lachesis on the starter pinion as it does not sound like your pony it running at full speed. i would have to look it up but i the pony at full throttler runs 3600 rpm and you should be turning the main over at 600-650 rpm. just as a refresher go watch he also got some grate info on starter pinon stuff as well. good luck keep us posted

https://youtu.be/Jcz7qPz8QTE[/quote]

Temp gauge gets to just past the middle of the "green" operating range. Pony seems to rev pretty high, by ear- I do not have a tach so can't really confirm exactly what it is spinning at. Next time I start it I will let it spin longer under compression and then see if she will fire off.
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Sun, Nov 27, 2016 1:53 AM
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