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Generator 311 or 315

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wide track
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Did any come singel phase? what problems do gen have ? May start looking around. thanks
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Tue, Jan 27, 2009 12:05 PM
ccjersey
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Generators have this problem with smoke. If you let it out, it's darned expensive to get it back in again.

It's very possible that some were single phase, but most common by far would have been a 120/208,240/416 3 phase wye wound sets with 10 leads so you could go high voltage or low voltage.

If something is wrong with the regulator (really old ones didn't have much in the way of a regulator) it can cost more that the generator and engine cost to repair the regulator. There are modern aftermarket regulator/exciter combinations available to replace all the old stuff that is so expensive to fix, but they ain't exactly cheap either.

You may get lucky, but consider you may be buying an engine and some scrap copper when you get one.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time๐Ÿ˜„
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Tue, Jan 27, 2009 12:29 PM
bunkclimber
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Reply to ccjersey:
Generators have this problem with smoke. If you let it out, it's darned expensive to get it back in again.

It's very possible that some were single phase, but most common by far would have been a 120/208,240/416 3 phase wye wound sets with 10 leads so you could go high voltage or low voltage.

If something is wrong with the regulator (really old ones didn't have much in the way of a regulator) it can cost more that the generator and engine cost to repair the regulator. There are modern aftermarket regulator/exciter combinations available to replace all the old stuff that is so expensive to fix, but they ain't exactly cheap either.

You may get lucky, but consider you may be buying an engine and some scrap copper when you get one.


get on Ebay in the generator parts section,you can find regulators for sale quite often.IMHO,as I was skooled,there are two types of regulators,hi voltage(>75vdc) and low voltage(<75Vdc)..
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Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:24 PM
ccjersey
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Reply to bunkclimber:


get on Ebay in the generator parts section,you can find regulators for sale quite often.IMHO,as I was skooled,there are two types of regulators,hi voltage(>75vdc) and low voltage(<75Vdc)..
The problem with most of the regulators available today (and for the last 30 years or so) is that they will not regulate the amount of power required for the field of an old generator. They are designed for one that has a brushless exciter which takes a small current that the regulator can control and amplifies it into the full field current (and does away with the brushes and sliprings at the same time).

Look at the minimum circuit resistance spec on anything you buy before you hook it up. Sometimes you can use a resister in series with the field to increase the resistance and still be within the capability of the regulator. The other way to do this is to buy one of the exciter/regulator combinations (from Powertronics and others) and replace the whole shootin' match.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time๐Ÿ˜„
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Tue, Jan 27, 2009 9:11 PM
ewingjh
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Reply to ccjersey:
The problem with most of the regulators available today (and for the last 30 years or so) is that they will not regulate the amount of power required for the field of an old generator. They are designed for one that has a brushless exciter which takes a small current that the regulator can control and amplifies it into the full field current (and does away with the brushes and sliprings at the same time).

Look at the minimum circuit resistance spec on anything you buy before you hook it up. Sometimes you can use a resister in series with the field to increase the resistance and still be within the capability of the regulator. The other way to do this is to buy one of the exciter/regulator combinations (from Powertronics and others) and replace the whole shootin' match.
I know that all 12 wire sets can be wired for either 3 or single phase and I think 10 wire sets also. I beleive its called a wigwag connection to get 120-240 single phase.What is your field resistance-if its above 18 ohms or so your in luck as Basler and others make a general purpose regulator for less than 200 dollars Jim
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Fri, Jan 30, 2009 9:43 AM
ccjersey
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Reply to ewingjh:
I know that all 12 wire sets can be wired for either 3 or single phase and I think 10 wire sets also. I beleive its called a wigwag connection to get 120-240 single phase.What is your field resistance-if its above 18 ohms or so your in luck as Basler and others make a general purpose regulator for less than 200 dollars Jim
9/10 lead generators can supply single phase power from 2 of the 3 phase legs, but cannot be reconnected for single phase because there is a permanent Y connection (T10-T11-T12) buried in the stator which fixes the connection scheme as Y only. They are intended for either high (series Y) or low voltage (2 parallel Y connection) 3 phase loads primarily.

Here is a good resource. This is the FAQ thread on Sparks & Arcs the generator and motor board on the Smokestak old engines website.
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47155
I attached some links to generic reconnection diagrams to the post about reconnecting for different voltages.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time๐Ÿ˜„
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Fri, Jan 30, 2009 9:14 PM
bobcatd311
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Reply to ccjersey:
9/10 lead generators can supply single phase power from 2 of the 3 phase legs, but cannot be reconnected for single phase because there is a permanent Y connection (T10-T11-T12) buried in the stator which fixes the connection scheme as Y only. They are intended for either high (series Y) or low voltage (2 parallel Y connection) 3 phase loads primarily.

Here is a good resource. This is the FAQ thread on Sparks & Arcs the generator and motor board on the Smokestak old engines website.
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47155
I attached some links to generic reconnection diagrams to the post about reconnecting for different voltages.
i highly recommend that you buy one i have a d311 electric set (not for sale) and it is cool early models had 6 pole fields and they purr like a kitty at 1200 rpm mine is a later model with a 4 pole field so you need 1800 rpm to make 60hz the little engine roars i have an external transformer to get down to 120/240 no problems
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Sat, Jan 31, 2009 5:47 AM
catcrazy
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Reply to bobcatd311:
i highly recommend that you buy one i have a d311 electric set (not for sale) and it is cool early models had 6 pole fields and they purr like a kitty at 1200 rpm mine is a later model with a 4 pole field so you need 1800 rpm to make 60hz the little engine roars i have an external transformer to get down to 120/240 no problems
I also have a D311 Electric set & hope to have it purring in the next week or so time permitting, had to wait for a few parts to arrive before getting too serious. Mostly just the drive coupler between the engine & the genset, it got a little side tracked coming from Spokane the week before Christmas, with all the crazy weather & Christmas freight. But I got it now & it looks awesome, not new but very good used condition. Also going to hook this genset into single phase for back-up generator in case the lights go out here in the sticks when it's -40F, I think that my house & pump house would freeze rather quickly & the price was right, can't say no to another yellow machine.
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Sat, Jan 31, 2009 7:49 AM
wide track
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Reply to catcrazy:
I also have a D311 Electric set & hope to have it purring in the next week or so time permitting, had to wait for a few parts to arrive before getting too serious. Mostly just the drive coupler between the engine & the genset, it got a little side tracked coming from Spokane the week before Christmas, with all the crazy weather & Christmas freight. But I got it now & it looks awesome, not new but very good used condition. Also going to hook this genset into single phase for back-up generator in case the lights go out here in the sticks when it's -40F, I think that my house & pump house would freeze rather quickly & the price was right, can't say no to another yellow machine.
Thanks guys , If i can find one ? i'll be sending plane tickets to all you guys.To help set unit up . i'm not a Elec man (but i can change a light bulb).bobcatd311 i like 1200 Rpm setup can you send photos how your set up ? i'll have someone else wire up unit. Or any one sending photos can spell out how to wire up for singel phase & what to use.You'll have to hold my hand show me. Where can find a 311 w/ the right wires to get singel phase? Whats $ to get one? looking for next winter project. I'm going to copie all info save . Thanks guys.
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Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:09 AM
ccjersey
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Reply to wide track:
Thanks guys , If i can find one ? i'll be sending plane tickets to all you guys.To help set unit up . i'm not a Elec man (but i can change a light bulb).bobcatd311 i like 1200 Rpm setup can you send photos how your set up ? i'll have someone else wire up unit. Or any one sending photos can spell out how to wire up for singel phase & what to use.You'll have to hold my hand show me. Where can find a 311 w/ the right wires to get singel phase? Whats $ to get one? looking for next winter project. I'm going to copie all info save . Thanks guys.
If you find one, a single phase set could have either 3 wires out for 120/240 (most likely) or 4 if it is reconnectable for 120, 120/240 or 240. Not many generators that large are reconnectable single phase with the 4 wires, but who knows?

On the 9/10 lead 3 phase sets, you will need it to be set for low voltage (120/20๐Ÿ˜Ž and use any 2 lines and the neutral to connect to your transfer switch. the other line is unused unless you want to use it for a 120 volt outlet you can plug an extension cord into. The "220" (really 240 volt) circuits in the building will only get 208, but that's usually OK unless you have a fully loaded motor you're trying to run that's not rated for 208/230 like most are these days. If you use 2 lines, you can only get 2/3 of the full 3 phase kVA rating out of a 3 phase generator.

12 lead generators can be reconnected for single phase, but most can still only deliver 2/3 of their full 3 phase kVA. Some have an optional "extended stack" generator end which can safely deliver the full kVA in either single or 3 phase.

the good news is that this 2/3 rule is 2/3 of the kVA rating, not the kW rating. So if the set is rated @ .8 pf, 3 phase, when running single phase you can pull kW equal to the 2/3 kVA rating (pf=1.0)

See the smokestak link posted above for more information on kW, kVA and pf.
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time๐Ÿ˜„
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Sun, Feb 1, 2009 8:47 AM
bobcatd311
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Reply to ccjersey:
If you find one, a single phase set could have either 3 wires out for 120/240 (most likely) or 4 if it is reconnectable for 120, 120/240 or 240. Not many generators that large are reconnectable single phase with the 4 wires, but who knows?

On the 9/10 lead 3 phase sets, you will need it to be set for low voltage (120/20๐Ÿ˜Ž and use any 2 lines and the neutral to connect to your transfer switch. the other line is unused unless you want to use it for a 120 volt outlet you can plug an extension cord into. The "220" (really 240 volt) circuits in the building will only get 208, but that's usually OK unless you have a fully loaded motor you're trying to run that's not rated for 208/230 like most are these days. If you use 2 lines, you can only get 2/3 of the full 3 phase kVA rating out of a 3 phase generator.

12 lead generators can be reconnected for single phase, but most can still only deliver 2/3 of their full 3 phase kVA. Some have an optional "extended stack" generator end which can safely deliver the full kVA in either single or 3 phase.

the good news is that this 2/3 rule is 2/3 of the kVA rating, not the kW rating. So if the set is rated @ .8 pf, 3 phase, when running single phase you can pull kW equal to the 2/3 kVA rating (pf=1.0)

See the smokestak link posted above for more information on kW, kVA and pf.
This is my gen set and cont panel. The electric set is CAT 4V7279 which is a d311 with a vendor supplied 30kW generator. D311 is the motor supplied in the d2 4u/5u tractors.

The transformer (gray box with white box on top) is a 3 phase 30kva westinghouse dt-3. This steps down the 440 vac from the generator to 110 vac.

The control panel has an EMCP 2 i bought on ebay. This monitors the gen output. The analog meters duplicate some of the EMCP measurements.

Bob
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Wed, Feb 4, 2009 9:43 AM
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