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FUEL TRANSFER PUMP PRESSURE

FUEL TRANSFER PUMP PRESSURE

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bboaz
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I think I need to find a complete Fuel Transfer Pump for a  212  Road Grader,    I think it is the same as a D2 dozer.   I have surfaced the main body, the cover, pump assembly and gears with a .002 clearance to eliminate all wear marks from the gears and new seals in the pump and cannot increase fuel pressure.  I have a new spring ordered for the bypass  to see if it will help.  I made a plate to bolt the pump to so I  could spin the pump with a drill.  The fuel intake Adaptor is in place with the by pass spring and valve in place just like it would be on the machine.  The outlet is taped  1/8 inch pipe thread so a bypass valve and pressure gauge can be attached.  With a drill it will peg the fuel pressure gauge, but on the machine it will barely provide any pressure at all.  I realize the drill may be turning the pump faster, but even at the minimum speed of the drill the pressure is more than is what is on the machine running.  Can anyone tell me how fast (RPM) the pump turns when the motor is being turned by the pony motor?  That way I can adjust my drill speed to match.  Even with the motor running at full throttle, I get very little fuel pressure.  ( Maybe an 1/8 of an inch from zero into the red on the gauge)  I am using a new fuel pressure gauge so the gauge is not in question.  The low fuel pressure makes the machine hard to start and lacking on power.  New filters in the fuel tower, plus the tower has been cleaned  so I don't think there is a flow problem between the pump and the injector pumps.  The only thing I haven't measured is the gear diameter in relation to he housing diameter to determine clearance between the gears and the housing where the gears actually move the fuel.  Anyone have any Ideas on this?.  
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Mon, Apr 3, 2023 10:18 PM
Rome K/G
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Make sure all the passages are open in the filter housing, I had one where the tube from the top down to the pump was plugged with pieces of rust, blow it out with compressed air with the pump off. 
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Tue, Apr 4, 2023 12:07 AM
rax200
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Reply to Rome K/G:
Make sure all the passages are open in the filter housing, I had one where the tube from the top down to the pump was plugged with pieces of rust, blow it out with compressed air with the pump off. 
Hi bboaz,
If my memory serves me right the injector shaft turns at half the speed of the engine so if the engine is doing 500 rpm the injector shaft dose 250 rpm and the fuel pump is geared of that so it will be going slower that that.

Some good boffins out there would be able to do the maths out there for this.

Regards
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Tue, Apr 4, 2023 4:44 AM
rax200
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Reply to rax200:
Hi bboaz,
If my memory serves me right the injector shaft turns at half the speed of the engine so if the engine is doing 500 rpm the injector shaft dose 250 rpm and the fuel pump is geared of that so it will be going slower that that.

Some good boffins out there would be able to do the maths out there for this.

Regards
Hi Bboaz,
Dusted of the brain cells got out the abacus, totaled with the crayons added up the numbers an it roughly works out to 165 rpm if the engine is doing 500 rpm.

But I still coul be wrong.

Regards
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Tue, Apr 4, 2023 4:58 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to rax200:
Hi Bboaz,
Dusted of the brain cells got out the abacus, totaled with the crayons added up the numbers an it roughly works out to 165 rpm if the engine is doing 500 rpm.

But I still coul be wrong.

Regards
Gear to housing clearance is also critical. If it's 0.004" or more it's considered worn out.
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Tue, Apr 4, 2023 7:55 AM
d2gary
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Gear to housing clearance is also critical. If it's 0.004" or more it's considered worn out.
I don't have a 212 parts book to check but I have a 5j parts tractor that has a complete pump. Tractor was "running when parked", I don't no anything more than that about the condition of the pump. You're welcome to it .
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Tue, Apr 4, 2023 10:12 AM
bboaz
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Reply to d2gary:
I don't have a 212 parts book to check but I have a 5j parts tractor that has a complete pump. Tractor was "running when parked", I don't no anything more than that about the condition of the pump. You're welcome to it .
ROME k/G Changed filters and cleaned tower. Didn't check the tube from the top of the tower to the pump. The motor is running so it is getting fuel, just not the pressure it needs to be. That will be something to check.
rax200 165 rpm That gives me something to work with. I have a mechanical tac-ometer. I will check my drill and see if I can copy that speed and see what pressure I get.
Old Magnet .004 clearance That is gear OD to housing ID i presume. I already have end clearance at a about .002.and that may be half worn out. I can see where the gears meshing with each other in the center could wear the gear smaller. Something to measure.
d2gary I would be very interested in your pump. If you do text send me a text at 573 433 92seven seven, or a private message and we can discuss the purchase of your pump. The motor in the 212 is the same as a D2. An extra pump will give me something to work with. I will take a picture of my pump to compare.

Thanks for everyone's input. I have numbers and maybe even another pump which might just solve the problem. I have a couple of D-6 Pumps. The housing where it bolts to the tower is different but the body and end cover are the same. Might be worth while to swap some parts to see what I can come up with. bboaz
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Tue, Apr 4, 2023 11:12 AM
trainzkid88
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Reply to bboaz:
ROME k/G Changed filters and cleaned tower. Didn't check the tube from the top of the tower to the pump. The motor is running so it is getting fuel, just not the pressure it needs to be. That will be something to check.
rax200 165 rpm That gives me something to work with. I have a mechanical tac-ometer. I will check my drill and see if I can copy that speed and see what pressure I get.
Old Magnet .004 clearance That is gear OD to housing ID i presume. I already have end clearance at a about .002.and that may be half worn out. I can see where the gears meshing with each other in the center could wear the gear smaller. Something to measure.
d2gary I would be very interested in your pump. If you do text send me a text at 573 433 92seven seven, or a private message and we can discuss the purchase of your pump. The motor in the 212 is the same as a D2. An extra pump will give me something to work with. I will take a picture of my pump to compare.

Thanks for everyone's input. I have numbers and maybe even another pump which might just solve the problem. I have a couple of D-6 Pumps. The housing where it bolts to the tower is different but the body and end cover are the same. Might be worth while to swap some parts to see what I can come up with. bboaz
the u series d4 also used the same engine. a bush fix if you cant get one working properly is the facet style 12v electric fuel pump plumbed in between the filter housing and fuel tank.

the mate did that for his dad's nissan when the lift pump on it failed until he found another one.
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Tue, Apr 4, 2023 2:15 PM
bboaz
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D2Gary  A picture  of my pump on the machine.  If it is the same as your pump I am very interested in it.  573 433 9277 Please call me.  bboaz
 [attachment=71750]20230404_080436[1].jpg[/attachment] [attachment=71751]20230404_080445[1].jpg[/attachment]
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Tue, Apr 4, 2023 8:17 PM
d2gary
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  [attachment=71752]20230404_062202.jpg[/attachment]
Pump headed to bboaz
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Tue, Apr 4, 2023 8:41 PM
bboaz
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d2gary got the pump in the mail today. I will get it put on in the next couple of days and let you know how it does. Thanks Brian Boaz
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Tue, Apr 11, 2023 10:20 AM
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