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fuel pump help needed D4 7u

fuel pump help needed D4 7u

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tommyt
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For the last little bit i have had very low fuel pressure at idle. full throttle was fine. i changed the fuel filters and no help. Yesterday it started sputtering like it was running out of fuel but it had plenty in it. I cannot get it pump any fuel to the injector lines. it will also not fill the filter housing.
this is what i have tried.
took line loose at filter/pump housing. no restriction was found fuel flowing fine from tank.
pressurized tank. it will force fuel to the filter housing but will not start pumping on its own.
took the block than the fuel line goes into off and checked the spring and all looked fine and clean. i do not see how this check valve could do anything by looking at it.
i have run this machine out of fuel before and was always amazed at how fast it would get fuel pressure back.
where is the actual fuel pump at? and do these go bad often? To already be having fuel pump trouble in 60 years seems a little odd? they just don't make em like they used to.
any help on this would greatly be appreciated. thanks Tommy T.
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Thu, May 23, 2013 8:15 AM
Inter674
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Have you cleaned out the filter housing?

Mine was full of water and rusty gunk some of which was blocking the various entry and exit points. Pehraps the new filters have caused a rush of fuel that has dislodged some of this crap?

I doubt it will be the relief valve spring. Mine was broken, and a new one did not change the pressure which remained below acceptable at idle but okay at full throttle.

Perhaps the pump - which sits below the fule tower has finally gone west, with too much clearance between the rotor lobes and casing?

I would check all the supply lines again, including into the lift pumps (atop the fuel pump) as these can get gunked up with crud as can the lines to the injectors. I had one injector line fully rusted up inside the fairly small tubing ID.
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Thu, May 23, 2013 9:46 AM
d4catmatt
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Just read your post, I have little experience with the older machine, seems to me that if you have a good gravity flow of fuel from the tank than its more than likely a transfer pump issue. The check valve you refer to is probably a pressure regulator. If the spring and seat look good I would suspect a transfer pump. I'll check a manual and see how the fuel is delivered and regulated to the service assembly.
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Thu, May 23, 2013 9:53 AM
drujinin
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Reply to d4catmatt:
Just read your post, I have little experience with the older machine, seems to me that if you have a good gravity flow of fuel from the tank than its more than likely a transfer pump issue. The check valve you refer to is probably a pressure regulator. If the spring and seat look good I would suspect a transfer pump. I'll check a manual and see how the fuel is delivered and regulated to the service assembly.
Use the search function in the upper right of your screen!
In the past 9 months there was an extensive series of posts on rebuilding the D2/D4 fuel transfer pumps. Plus there were a couple of posts of almost the exact fuel flow issue it sounds like you guys are having.
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Thu, May 23, 2013 5:39 PM
ag-mike
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Reply to drujinin:
Use the search function in the upper right of your screen!
In the past 9 months there was an extensive series of posts on rebuilding the D2/D4 fuel transfer pumps. Plus there were a couple of posts of almost the exact fuel flow issue it sounds like you guys are having.
word of caution, don't rebuild the transfer pump without putting a filter between the tank and pump. rusty fuel tanks r the biggest cause of tranfer pumps failure. good luck.
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Thu, May 23, 2013 6:37 PM
tommyt
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Reply to ag-mike:
word of caution, don't rebuild the transfer pump without putting a filter between the tank and pump. rusty fuel tanks r the biggest cause of tranfer pumps failure. good luck.
I have the transfer pump off and I can .006 between the gears and .005 between the pump drive gear and the housing. The other gear I can only get .003 in between gear and housing. Is this excessive? What I did find when taking the pump off was the black hard plastic plunger that goes to the spring. I guess this is a relief valve of some sort? So with this gone is why no pressure at all and maybe if the pump is wore is the reason for low pressure. Should I get another pump?
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Fri, May 24, 2013 6:11 AM
tommyt
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Reply to tommyt:
I have the transfer pump off and I can .006 between the gears and .005 between the pump drive gear and the housing. The other gear I can only get .003 in between gear and housing. Is this excessive? What I did find when taking the pump off was the black hard plastic plunger that goes to the spring. I guess this is a relief valve of some sort? So with this gone is why no pressure at all and maybe if the pump is wore is the reason for low pressure. Should I get another pump?
The black plastic plunger had feel off the first time I took it off and I didn't see it.
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Fri, May 24, 2013 6:14 AM
ccjersey
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If your fuel pressure goes into the green when the engine is running, you're in good shape. The engine will start if there is any pressure feeding fuel into the injection pumps. It is pretty common to find the button on the end of the spring is hard and not sealing properly against the cast iron block. The block can be slightly eroded as well. This can be filed flat if care is taken or lapped on fine sand paper laid on a glass pane or even surfaced if you want to go to the trouble.

An in-line strainer or filter is not a bad idea even if you haven't rebuilt the transfer pump. πŸ‘
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare timeπŸ˜„
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Fri, May 24, 2013 8:56 AM
zip
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Reply to ccjersey:
If your fuel pressure goes into the green when the engine is running, you're in good shape. The engine will start if there is any pressure feeding fuel into the injection pumps. It is pretty common to find the button on the end of the spring is hard and not sealing properly against the cast iron block. The block can be slightly eroded as well. This can be filed flat if care is taken or lapped on fine sand paper laid on a glass pane or even surfaced if you want to go to the trouble.

An in-line strainer or filter is not a bad idea even if you haven't rebuilt the transfer pump. πŸ‘
Most of the time fuel pump check valve is not working properly, it is a very simple thing that does a lot in the fuel system, holds a set pressure, bypasses fuel as filters get plugged keeps the pump from dead heading against itself and causing excessive wear, So that little spring and puck is pretty important in there! The fuel gauge comes after the filters, so the gauge shows dirty filters or check valve misfunction, or bad pump!! I think i got it all!! good luck!
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Fri, May 24, 2013 9:16 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to zip:
Most of the time fuel pump check valve is not working properly, it is a very simple thing that does a lot in the fuel system, holds a set pressure, bypasses fuel as filters get plugged keeps the pump from dead heading against itself and causing excessive wear, So that little spring and puck is pretty important in there! The fuel gauge comes after the filters, so the gauge shows dirty filters or check valve misfunction, or bad pump!! I think i got it all!! good luck!
0.004 " clearance between transfer pump gears and housing is considered worn out.
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Fri, May 24, 2013 9:49 AM
tommyt
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Reply to Old Magnet:
0.004 " clearance between transfer pump gears and housing is considered worn out.
i found a another pump this evening off a spare motor from a friend. took pump apart and it was very rusty so i cant use it in current state. What i noticed was someone had stretched the spring a lot and the check valve looked better than mine. the cover plate on both pumps have wear so i'm taking the spare to the machine shop. i'm also taking the block for the plunger for resurfacing. I'm sure the pump is wore but i do believe the main issue is the check valve spring being weak. i will know in the morning. thanks for all the help. i use this machine for work and need it running by the weekend.
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Fri, May 24, 2013 10:04 AM
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