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Figured out a carburetor problem

Figured out a carburetor problem

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STEPHEN
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OK, so these older pony carbs have this gismo connecting the choke shaft and choke lever, the purpose is to let the choke plate open against spring pressure when the choke is closed completely. This mechanism has closely fitted dissimilar metals, and a stainless spring held together with a staked ring. My problem was that the parts were all seized, soaking had no effect, didn't want to heat the alloy casting much. I took it apart by destroying the staked ring, got it all cleaned up, but couldn't get the parts back together with the spring. I know I worked about 3 hrs in just one sitting with no luck. I finally figured out that I needed to make a new spring with an long tendril and cut off the extra after assembly. The original spring was from .032 wire, I had a flea market find of .025 wire and wound a coil that worked. I found that a suitable diameter mandrel was found trial & error by using the drills from the drill index. I decided the spring worked OK but thought the bent ends were a bit flimsy and worried the they might pull out of the mating holes. I was able to use the original spring by welding on a short piece of 1/16" Tig wire with the welder turned down to 5 amps. I needed to make a retaining ring, the original was brass, but found a S/S washer in the parts drawer that only needed the ID bored a bit. Next, how to keep the ring secure in the housing?
I made a staking tool from A2 that uses a spring and centering plug to put pressure on the ring as everything is pressed together in the mill vise. I assembled the parts with antisieze to keep any moisture out. For scale reference on the staking tool, the lugs are .032 wide and .010 tall. I think they could have been a little bigger but seem to work OK.
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Sun, Mar 5, 2017 11:06 AM
TOGNOT
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You, sir, are determined and dedicated to completion of a task.
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Sun, Mar 5, 2017 1:23 PM
ronm
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Reply to TOGNOT:
You, sir, are determined and dedicated to completion of a task.
Neat job -one question, what model or year uses the bell crank to reverse the pull on the choke? I haven't seen that on any of my D2 carbs. . . I have a time or two pulled on the rope for 5 minutes only to finally remember the damned counterintuitive choke has to be pushed in to choke. . .
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Sun, Mar 5, 2017 8:44 PM
STEPHEN
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Reply to ronm:
Neat job -one question, what model or year uses the bell crank to reverse the pull on the choke? I haven't seen that on any of my D2 carbs. . . I have a time or two pulled on the rope for 5 minutes only to finally remember the damned counterintuitive choke has to be pushed in to choke. . .


I thought all the Zenith carburetors used pull to choke. This carb is an early Zenith, but the AXA22 as used on RD6,7,8 and the later D series were all pull so far as I know. I think the complicated gismo was replaced with a direct pull and leaf valve in the choke plate? I think I saw that somewhere, subject to correction. My 5U is pull to choke, so I would like to see what your linkage is like.
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Sun, Mar 5, 2017 11:24 PM
STEPHEN
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Reply to TOGNOT:
You, sir, are determined and dedicated to completion of a task.


Thanks tognot, I am on a quest to complete many long standing half completed projects. Unless I find some more to start.
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Sun, Mar 5, 2017 11:27 PM
ag-mike
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Reply to STEPHEN:


Thanks tognot, I am on a quest to complete many long standing half completed projects. Unless I find some more to start.
choke pull, throttle up push. nice job with stops. thanks.
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Sun, Mar 5, 2017 11:30 PM
Old Magnet
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Reply to ag-mike:
choke pull, throttle up push. nice job with stops. thanks.
What's the Zenith tag number on those carbs?
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Mon, Mar 6, 2017 12:30 AM
ccjersey
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The D2/D3400/D311, D4/D4400/D315, and the D6/D46000/D318 ponies I have been around are normal pull to apply/push to open choke but might be considered backwards on throttle motion. Pull throttle knob out to restrain governor arm and close throttle/push to release governor arm and allow throttle to open. So when cranking it, you would have both knobs pulled out and when turning the diesel, you would have both pushed in.

The later vertical cylinder side mount ponies did have a leaf valve in the choke plate. Not immune to failure, but far simpler than the type you were dealing with. I just blocked off the hole on the D7 48a pony cause the leaf valve and spring were gone. Have to be on your toes and not flood it, but like the horizontal opposed ponies, it does have a drain on the manifold if you really mess up! Just cranked it up after sitting for several years and after dealing with the putty-like material in the gas valve and sediment bowl, the pony ran well. Put fresh gasoline in it for the first start but by the next day I could no longer get any to flow into the sediment bowl, so I poured in a whole bottle of STP fuel system cleaner. By the next day it was flowing gasoline again!
D2-5J's, D6-9U's, D318 and D333 power units, 12E-99E grader, 922B & 944A wheel loaders, D330C generator set, DW20 water tanker and a bunch of Jersey cows to take care of in my spare time😄
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Mon, Mar 6, 2017 1:40 AM
ronm
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Reply to ccjersey:
The D2/D3400/D311, D4/D4400/D315, and the D6/D46000/D318 ponies I have been around are normal pull to apply/push to open choke but might be considered backwards on throttle motion. Pull throttle knob out to restrain governor arm and close throttle/push to release governor arm and allow throttle to open. So when cranking it, you would have both knobs pulled out and when turning the diesel, you would have both pushed in.

The later vertical cylinder side mount ponies did have a leaf valve in the choke plate. Not immune to failure, but far simpler than the type you were dealing with. I just blocked off the hole on the D7 48a pony cause the leaf valve and spring were gone. Have to be on your toes and not flood it, but like the horizontal opposed ponies, it does have a drain on the manifold if you really mess up! Just cranked it up after sitting for several years and after dealing with the putty-like material in the gas valve and sediment bowl, the pony ran well. Put fresh gasoline in it for the first start but by the next day I could no longer get any to flow into the sediment bowl, so I poured in a whole bottle of STP fuel system cleaner. By the next day it was flowing gasoline again!
I just went out & started Wilford just to make sure it wasn't a brain fart on my part...& yes, the choke pushes in to close. Push it in while it's running, it starts to blubber & blow black smoke. The arm points down, like your pic, but the rod is straight through from the knob without the brass bellcrank & linkage in your pic. This carb came off of the 5U pony I bought to replace the blown-up original, but it didn't have the bellcrank either...it has the mousetrap thingie that you rebuilt. The pictures in my 3J parts book show the arm pointing up, which would make it work normally-pull to choke. I used the better of the 2 carbs, the original had a mess where somebody re-soldered the choke plate screws to the shaft...
The throttle works just like cc said, pull out to idle down...
Dunno why she's that way, but she is...😕
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Mon, Mar 6, 2017 1:55 AM
Old Magnet
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Reply to ronm:
I just went out & started Wilford just to make sure it wasn't a brain fart on my part...& yes, the choke pushes in to close. Push it in while it's running, it starts to blubber & blow black smoke. The arm points down, like your pic, but the rod is straight through from the knob without the brass bellcrank & linkage in your pic. This carb came off of the 5U pony I bought to replace the blown-up original, but it didn't have the bellcrank either...it has the mousetrap thingie that you rebuilt. The pictures in my 3J parts book show the arm pointing up, which would make it work normally-pull to choke. I used the better of the 2 carbs, the original had a mess where somebody re-soldered the choke plate screws to the shaft...
The throttle works just like cc said, pull out to idle down...
Dunno why she's that way, but she is...😕
Corrections:
Appears to be early 22AX8 carbs, early versions with slightly different ear on the 9B4893 "Lever & drive assembly"
Available new @
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list/partssearch.aspx?partnum=9B4893&pst=starts

Used on the vertical twin cylinder pony motors.

Complications:
The only carb I could find that has the thread option for fuel line connection vertical on the bowl cover is for D7 9G1-9G1129 on a 2B8447 carb but the lever assy shown is a 9B4526 which doesn't look like yours and is apparently not available.
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Mon, Mar 6, 2017 5:46 AM
STEPHEN
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Reply to Old Magnet:
Corrections:
Appears to be early 22AX8 carbs, early versions with slightly different ear on the 9B4893 "Lever & drive assembly"
Available new @
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list/partssearch.aspx?partnum=9B4893&pst=starts

Used on the vertical twin cylinder pony motors.

Complications:
The only carb I could find that has the thread option for fuel line connection vertical on the bowl cover is for D7 9G1-9G1129 on a 2B8447 carb but the lever assy shown is a 9B4526 which doesn't look like yours and is apparently not available.
[quote="Old Magnet"]Corrections:
Appears to be early 22AX8 carbs, early versions with slightly different ear on the 9B4893 "Lever & drive assembly"
Available new @
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list/partssearch.aspx?partnum=9B4893&pst=starts

Used on the vertical twin cylinder pony motors.

Complications:
The only carb I could find that has the thread option for fuel line connection vertical on the bowl cover is for D7 9G1-9G1129 on a 2B8447 carb but the lever assy shown is a 9B4526 which doesn't look like yours and is apparently not available.[/quote]

OM this is on a 2B8447 to fit a diesel 35, 40, 50

I have a N.O.S. D2/D4 kit with the needed choke nugget, but I remember the rotation was opposite, or the indexing , etc.
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Mon, Mar 6, 2017 7:11 AM
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