Diesel in 2014

QUOTE=dozerlarry-
Will it affect the average cat owner? ->depends,maybe the business owner,but not restoration folks like us-

I here that by 2014 all diesel engins will have to comply to strict emisson laws. I was told that this would be nation wide.
->probably have to add catalyst or soot trap on exh.stack,don't know how they'll enforce that on older non-road engines..probably just new diesel engines will have to comply.Old diesel pickups haven't been forced off the road yet.I don't know how they can touch a non-road machine-

One way that they are going to control it is by stopping the sale of new and used parts.
->only economics will do that,they cant outlaw parts..you can still buy all the Detroit 2-stroke parts you want right now..and they don't even comply with tier1 emissions!-

Dose anyone have any information on this and how it would affect the every day guy. I was told that this will affect bussiness,
farmers,construction,loggers?
->probably be some kind of mandatory retrofit cat or soot trap on the exhaust.laws will only be as good as the enforcement.-

that they will have to buy new equipment if they cant meet the emisson law of 2014
-maybe the big contractors will be urged into buying new thru tax incentives,most will have newer equip on the job anyway by then thru wear and attrition-

Bunk-
I'm not trying to piss in your wheaties here, but that post was full of speculation, maybes and assumptions.

It is far more dire than you might imagine. I do not have the details in front of me, and this post would be far too long if I did. Suffice to say there are a lot of very scared equipment owners out here. Some of the old timers are going to park their entire spread and retire. Already, every portable engine has to be permitted and registered. That is every crane, welder, air compressor, concrete pump, generator, tree chipper, screen plant, etc. It is illegal to operate any that are not. It is also illegal to bring any engine from out of state unless it is Tier 3. Tier 0, or uncertified (basically pre 1996) are banned in the four county SCAQMD, and they have hired more enforcement officers and the fines are outrageous.

As for as the heavy equipment, every piece will have an ID label. The CARB is mandating that equipment have Tier 4 engines by 2015. The rub? Tier 4 compliant engines have not been invented yet!! Owners are being forced to do expensive engine retrofits BEFORE they have to be replaced entirely. Those retrofits will cost $8000 to $50,000 per engine. The estimate for repowers is $300 per horsepower. If you can't reach your fleet average emissions by 2013, you will have to scrap 10% of your fleet PER YEAR until you do. At first they were going after fleets of over 20,000 combined horsepower, but overnite that was "redefined" to fleets of 5000 HP. The glut of older equipment flooding to out of state auctions is going to depress the market, making fleets that have taken years to build almost worthless.

How will it affect the antique owner? Much of the stuff we collect is still working. Who gets to decide what is vintage? The government? If they pull the plug on all Tier 0 parts do you really think you can just walk in to the dealer a say "It's OK for me I'm a collector..."?

The cost to business owners is staggering. How it will ripple out into the economy, employment, construction etc. does not look pretty.

This is no soot trap.

Al Gore will be pleased.

Welcome to the peoples Republic of California.

There are benefits in single issue voting, this might be one to look into.

These ideas will spread across the country rapidly from California, so this is everyones problem.

Carl, just for information Scania has launched the tier 5 engine and it has no aftertreatments, like add blue. it is totally self contained tier 5 and uses an exhaust gas recycling system along with a very expensive common rail electonically controlled fuel system. We have this year bought a volvo EC360B LC excavator and it is tier three compliant. However it has to have an engine oil with special additives and coolant too. The volvo trucks here in the Uk are running tier 4 with the adblue aftertreatment. Plant and site equipment in the uk will not be targeted as our government know full well it would seriously effect the economy. By the way our Derv (road fuel) is £4.76 a gallon about $9.78 hows that grab ya !!!! Regards Gordon.

Emminox exhaust systems here in the uk do infact now produce a silencer/muffler that is infact a type of soot trap, it effectively converts tier 2engines to tier 3, However, at a price....they've got us by the gonads again !! Daf 85 series 32 tonne eight wheeler, four axle in uk exhaust conversion to tier 3 in yr money about 11,000 bucks plus another 3200 to fit it....yes you guessed only they manufacturer can fit them. What price global warming eh !!!

Bunk-
I'm not trying to piss in your wheaties here, but that post was full of speculation, maybes and assumptions.

It is far more dire than you might imagine. I do not have the details in front of me, and this post would be far too long if I did. Suffice to say there are a lot of very scared equipment owners out here. Some of the old timers are going to park their entire spread and retire. Already, every portable engine has to be permitted and registered. That is every crane, welder, air compressor, concrete pump, generator, tree chipper, screen plant, etc. It is illegal to operate any that are not. It is also illegal to bring any engine from out of state unless it is Tier 3. Tier 0, or uncertified (basically pre 1996) are banned in the four county SCAQMD, and they have hired more enforcement officers and the fines are outrageous.

As for as the heavy equipment, every piece will have an ID label. The CARB is mandating that equipment have Tier 4 engines by 2015. The rub? Tier 4 compliant engines have not been invented yet!! Owners are being forced to do expensive engine retrofits BEFORE they have to be replaced entirely. Those retrofits will cost $8000 to $50,000 per engine. The estimate for repowers is $300 per horsepower. If you can't reach your fleet average emissions by 2013, you will have to scrap 10% of your fleet PER YEAR until you do. At first they were going after fleets of over 20,000 combined horsepower, but overnite that was "redefined" to fleets of 5000 HP. The glut of older equipment flooding to out of state auctions is going to depress the market, making fleets that have taken years to build almost worthless.

How will it affect the antique owner? Much of the stuff we collect is still working. Who gets to decide what is vintage? The government? If they pull the plug on all Tier 0 parts do you really think you can just walk in to the dealer a say "It's OK for me I'm a collector..."?

The cost to business owners is staggering. How it will ripple out into the economy, employment, construction etc. does not look pretty.

This is no soot trap.

[quote="carlsharp"]Bunk-
but that post was full of speculation, maybes and assumptions.

This is no soot trap.[/quote]

read Diesel Progress magazine,they discuss the Tier configurations and the impact of them on a regular basis in their columns.I'm a collector and restorer as well,and hope you folks in Calif.can continue to pursue your passion for old yeller iron just like I do..best of luck