Dating a 2 Ton Holt

I was just looking through some old threads researching this question and found the Nebraska Test for the T-35 from July 1922, that tractor had a chassis number of S-25218 and a engine number of 30150, about 440 engines earlier than the tractor we are trying to date here in Australia. It appears Hall Scott initially supplied around 1,000 engines to Holt for the T-35 before I'm assuming Holt took over engine production themselves, I'm wondering is it safe to try and use the engine numbers as a way of dating a tractor without a serial number plate.

I guess I'm asking does anyone know if Holt used the motors in numerical sequence, like did Hall Scotts 2 Ton engine #1 (or was it engine #30001?) go into Holts first T-35 #25001, and so if we looked at Holt tractor #25100 it had the Hall Scott engine #100 (or 30100?) , or by 1922 did Hall Scott ship engines in batches of several hundred to Holt and they were used in tractors without any concern for maintaining a numerical sequence of engine numbers to tractor number?

My guess is if Nebraska University were testing tractor #S-25218 in July 1922 that tractor was made only a month or two earlier, because in it's first year of production in 1921, only 53 T-35's were built, in 1922 production jumped to 521 tractors, and if I can safely assume Holt used those engines in a numerical order then I'm guessing this Aussie 2 Ton with a engine number of 30589, about 440 after the Nebraska Test tractor, that this Aussie tractor is probably a 1923 build?

Can anyone add anything?
Thanks
Mike

I dated a two ton Janet for awhile, lol, she was too bossy though. lol

Dang it, Rome, you beat me to it! :biggrin1:

hello mike, I'll try and find a name and number of someone in Cal who is a historian on holts ( Already been looking )
but can't find it yet ! maybe he might be able to help you with dating the tractor?
also might have some info on T35 and 2Ton tractors sold in Oz.....maybe?
Gilbert.

PS an earlier thread asking how to check engine oil level on a 2Ton was also the butt of a few jokers!!

Hi mudgecko, thanks for chiming in, I've got a pretty well developed sense of humor myself and was expecting some off the wall responses to my thread after I titled it the way I did, but it is nice of you to help with some research as I definitely have a soft spot for these genuine very early Australian delivered crawlers, the guy who owns it bought it about 25 years ago from a Scrappie in Mount Gambier in South Australia, he had dragged it off a Station in the south east of SA and it appears to be one of the really early ones.

The owner has stripped down the engine and he said it had obviously been reconditioned before the tractor had been parked and never used again, as the piston rings were brand new and he could see clearly the hone marks in the bore.
Regards
Mike

HISTORY OF HOLT TRACTORS IN AUSTRALIA

At December 2007 Australian Holt register has serial numbers for 10 of 25000 series Model T35 (2 ton), 24 of 70000 series Model T35, one 42000 series Model T11 (5 ton) wreck, two 43000 series Model T29 (5 ton), two 50000 series Model T29 (5 ton), two 45 HP full track tractors, one 75 HP half track tractor and one 75 HP copy built in England by the Ruston company. For most of these I also recorded engine serial numbers. I know of many Model T 35 tractors that no longer have their serial number plates so they can not be positively identified. There are five Model 2 TON tractors on my Caterpillar register with Holt Model M35 engines. I know of more than 200 tractors of the Holt “Caterpillar” T35 and Caterpillar Tractor Company 2 TON models in Australia with the change of model designation taking place during 1925 when the new company was formed.

Tractor number 2134 was the first Holt tractor delivered to Australia during 1914 and its whole history is known. It is a 75 HP tractor with tiller wheel steering and it was extensively reported in the Holt newsletter, Australian newspapers and even in English newspapers at the time. It was bought by Officer Brothers of Kallara Station near Bourke, NSW for carrying their wool to Bourke so that the wool could be loaded onto boats to be shipped to market. Kallara Station still exists as they now advertise farm stays on the net. The desktop photograph on my computer is a copy of a 1915 photograph taken at Kallara showing the tractor with two wagons loaded with 16 tons of wool. Three men are shown and named as W G Bowden in charge with his brother, Laurie, as his assistant and a station hand who is not named. The caption also states that the 110 miles to Bourke took five and a half days. Here are some details from Holt’s 1916 advertising : 75 belt HP <> 50 drawbar HP guaranteed <> 4 cylinder gasoline engine <> 550 RPM <> 7.125 inch cylinder bore <> 8 inch stroke <> 240 inches long <> 104 inches wide <> 120 inches high <> 2 forward speeds from 2 to 3 MPH and one reverse <> 23,600 pounds weight <> $4,500 for single speed tractor or $4,750 for two speed version at the factory. There is a photograph of the tractor and the Bowdens in “The History of Road Trains in the Northern Territory” by Jack Maddock who wrote for “Truck and Bus” magazine for many years. The Bowdens worked the tractor during its hauling days. Motor trucks took over hauling but I do not know when. The Holt was later used to operate a flying fox across the river and then to drive an irrigation pump on the river. After the war the pump was powered by a war surplus Cummins diesel engine and Laurie Bowden displayed the Holt engine in his Holden car agency in Bourke for many years. The tractor frame was dismantled over time for useful hardware for use around the property. Two Williamson brothers from Victoria gathered up what parts they could find and restored the tractor over many years. They found and talked to one of the Bowden brothers. Many parts could not be found and had to be made mostly from information supplied by enthusiasts in America. Most of one undercarriage was found but almost everything for the other side had to be made and other major parts also had to be made. Williamsons and I tried to trace other tractors that came here. Williamsons hunted around in the remains of tractors at the NSW government farm at Tottenham and more in Western Australia. The tractor was restored during the 1990’s and was displayed at the 2003 National Rally at Heyfield in Gippsland. It was extensively written up in “Restored Cars” magazine and “The Old Machinery Magazine”. It drew quite a crowd when started at Heyfield and it is shown on the rally videos. Photographs of the tractor are also on the Antique Caterpillar Machinery Owner’s Club web site. It is the only remaining Holt tiller wheel tractor in Australia of 18 known to have come here.

During World War ONE Holt built approximately 5,000 tractors for military service and about another 5,000 tractors were built by other companies for war service to Holt designs and/or under Holt supervision. Holt’s largest model was the twenty ton Model T8 tractor with 120 HP, six cylinder engine of which 676 were built and only one example remains in the world today. The 45 HP full track tractor evolved into the five ton Model T11 which were built as armoured tractors. The ten ton Model T16 tractor was similar in design to the Model T11 but larger and also built in armoured versions. See the picture books of military tractors published by Iconografix. A Model T11 tractor and a 75 HP tractor built by Rustons found their way to Australia after the war but how or when is not known.

Vrai Limited of Torrensville (Adelaide), South Australia was the first Holt agency in Australia from 1919 with their territory being the western half of Australia and the Barrier (Broken Hill) district. It is said that Vrai means “peace” in Palistinian. McBrides had seven pastoral properties in dry parts of South Australia with the transporting of supplies and wool being slow and expensive. Feed and water for teams often had to be carried with station supplies and wool. Frederick Cyril Custance arrived in Australia during 1906 from England and was with the Australian Flying Corps in the Middle East and France during World War One where he saw Holt tractors moving guns and supplies. He was involved in pioneer flying in South Australia during 1910. After the war Fred went to America where he set up a Holt agency for the McBride enterprises and bought home a new wife as well so Holt was down one employee. I do not know the full details of the relationship between Custance and McBride but he was one of two Managing Directors. Fred added the tractor agency to his motor garage business that already had agencies for United trucks from the USA and Humber cars from England. See the book, “Faraway and Beyond”, for more about McBride’s enterprises but only 350 copies were printed as far as I know. Faraway Hill was the name of one property and Yardea was another with both shown on my maps. I have a photocopy of a Vrai booklet without publication date but I think that it was published during 1922 because the four testimonials in the 27 page booklet are dated 1922. The 1922 trials at Yarcowie are mentioned where a 45 HP full track tractor was demonstrated. 1883 is given for the first “Caterpillar” though it should read 1904. Holt registered the trade name “Caterpillar” with the U S Patents Office during 1910. One page lists “recent Caterpillar sales” as 83,000 pounds with 25 owners names listed on the page with one 75 HP tractor (tiller wheel), 17 of 60 HP (tiller wheel), 10 of 45 HP (full track) and 10 of Model T35 (full track) tractors in all. The page also has AND NUMEROUS OTHERS. across the bottom. Officer’s tractor is included though it was not sold by Vrai Limited. Another full page is devoted to Custance, the setting up of Vrai Limited and the first trip from Adelaide to Yardea Station starting on 3 rd November 1919 with a 45 HP tractor and four wagons loaded with 16 tons of supplies. The trip was made at an average of 25 miles per day or 2.5 MPH all in top (second) gear. Another item gives details of a trip with wool from Yardea to Iron Knob taking 3.5 days for the 110 miles costing four pence per ton mile. McBrides are still in the pastoral business and Sir Philip McBride (1892-1982) was a prominent federal politician. Custance died of “heat exhaustion” at age 33 during 1923 after a car breakdown in the South Australian desert from one source and while delivering a tractor in other sources. I have the date from official records but the cause of death is not given in the index.

Vrai Limited sold three tiller wheel Holt tractors into Western Australia according to my booklet. The three large tractors were a 75 HP tractor that went to D M Rooke of Perth and two 60 HP tractors to W N Hedges of Perth according to my list. I was told that Rooke was a politician with properties around Bruce Rock and I have copies of a photograph of a Holt tractor with grain loaded wagons which I assume was his tractor. It has serial number 2299 or possibly 12299 painted on the left side of its square box radiator housing. Hedges was a railway construction contractor. A Holt engine, captioned as a diesel engine, is shown in a rail tractor in the very interesting book, "Rails Through the Bush", and I assume that it came from Hedges' tractor. No other Holt tractors are shown for WA in my booklet and I am not aware of any other Holt tractors residing in the state at any time. Two Best tractors (one each of 30 and 60 models) definitely existed in WA long ago.

The small 25000 series full track Holt Model T35 tractors were built at Stockton, California from 1921 to 1924 and I assume that the S prefixes on their serial number plates mean Stockton built. This design was very different to earlier designs with a surprisingly modern engine design with features also found on Hall-Scott and Fageol engines. The last tractor built was number 26352 according to a 1928 Caterpillar list but my list of Holt tractors known today in Australia includes numbers 26353, 26359 and 26361 plus what was probably 26360 though its brass plate is missing from the transmission. There are good illustrations of what may be tractor number 25001 from 1921 in the excellent “Caterpillar Photo Gallery” published by Iconografix though I disagree with some of the captions in the book. You must buy a copy of this book. Model T35 tractors from number 70001 to 78989 were built at Peoria from 1924 to 1928. When the Caterpillar Tractor Company was formed during 1925 the two ton Model T 35 tractor became known as the Model 2 TON with its maroon paint changed to light grey, its embossed brass patents plate with the tractor number changed to reflect the new maker’s name and the engine data plate discontinued. The 70000 series tractors were similar in appearance to the earlier 25000 series and many parts interchange between 1921 and 1928. 25000 series tractors have fabricated track frames and 70000 series tractors have cast frames as well as the radiator side plates being different for the two versions. There are smaller differences and both versions had many changes during their production periods. The five ton Model T11 tractor was superseded by the five ton Model T29 which was of the same styling as the Model T35 but larger. I have a photocopy of a February 1928 Vrai Limited sale docket for a Model 2 TON tractor for delivery to Port Pirie with the sale price shown as 570 pounds and the tractor exists today in the Roseworthy collection.

During 1923 Holt agencies were established in Perth by H J Wigmore and in Brisbane by Waugh and Josephson with these agencies continuing to represent the Caterpillar Tractor Company after its 1925 formation. S A Tractor Company was formed in Adelaide about 1928 to take over the Caterpillar business in South Australia after Vrai Limited was placed in voluntary liquidation when McBrides did not agree with Caterpillar’s financial policies. Traction Australia Limited of Melbourne was also a Holt agency during the 1920’s but I do not know exactly when as all I have are two advertisements with one mentioning Holt and the other not referring to Holt but to Cletrac instead.

Tractor number 332 is the only remaining example of 442 Holt 75 HP copies built by the Ruston company in England during the first world war. I have two excellent builder’s photographs of this series of tractors. The engine was built by a Perkins company but not the Perkins now owned by Caterpillar. The tractor’s history is known from 1927 but it would be nice to know its history from 1917 as stamped on the engine crankcase to 1927 when it was first reported in Australia. One of these tractors was mentioned in a “The Old Machinery Magazine” article in New Zealand during 1927 but I could not learn any more about it. Most of the Ruston built tractors went to Russia during the first world war and there are three of them on the deck of a ship now at the bottom of the North Sea. The tractor was used during 1927 on clearing of the right of way for the extension of the rail line to Winton in western Queensland according to the Queensland Rail history book. Later the tractor worked full time for many years pulling a fire break plough. It was abandoned when worn out and it was taken into Longreach where it sat for many years in a dam sinking contractor’s yard. It was “gunna” be restored but time was never available and the father died leaving the businesses to two sons who did not have the time to do anything with the tractor. I climbed over the tractor during 1991 while it was still in the Longreach yard with a tree growing up through it. Now it sits in the roadside collection at Ilfracombe just east of Longreach on a concrete pad with a corrugated iron roof over it.

END OF FILE

Mike this info was passed to me from Owen Triggell before he passed.
Gilbert

[quote="mudgecko"]Mike this info was passed to me from Owen Triggell before he passed.
Gilbert[/quote]

Fantastic Gilbert, thankyou for taking the time to share Owens research with us, I only got the chance to talk to him once on the phone, but luckily I met his family after he passed, what a interesting fella he was, who did the most amazing research on genuine Aussie Holts, Bests and Cats, without him we would know so little of our crawler history. RIP Owen Triggell.
Sincerely
Mike